Friday, February 02, 2007

Street Cleaning?

As Paulie astutely pointed out, it looks like it's 'throwback day' on the blog.

Unfortunately, due to the upgrade from Blogger to Google, we have lost a lot of our cool functionality on this site, and our old Blogmaster Bluefoot does not have the time or the tools to re-engineer it in the new XML format.

Adding insult to injury, some regulars, such as CitizenK, are not interested in converting to a Google account just to maintain their contributor status here, so we run the risk of losing some of our more spirited contributors.

Let's use this topic here to discuss which direction we should take the Street.

(to comment, click the green number to the right of the title above)


  1. How can I help? I am astonished that all the years of work and labor you guys have put into the site just went to hell because of an... Upgrade? WTF is that?

    Alba, Bloof, I will assist in anyway possible to get us back up and running bigger and better than before. Maybe I'll try to study up on the new XML format (or whatever it is).
    Tho I can't blame anybody for being exasperated and just throwing their hands up in the air and walking. this looks like a pretty big blow. But I want to see her live on. Lemme know how I can help. Damn.

  2. Well, I'll be happy to continue commenting (mostly during the season,) as long as it's not necessary to get a Google account. I guess I won't be able to create new posts, however.

    I suppose we could get our own domain and create a blog from scratch, but who's got enough time/funds for that?

  3. Whats the issue with Google getting ahold of your cookies, CK?

  4. CitK - you may have hit the nail right on the proverbial head.

    The folks at (including our old friend Bloof) are launching their upgraded site tonight, which is a private domain and licensed blogging software.

    Perhaps we can just "move on up to the East Side" and leave the old neighborhood behind.

    Check out on Saturday.

  5. Listen, I like the Blue, and I'll still go there, but I feel like I was here from the beginning, and helped to make this site as good as it is.

    I see Bloof, and remember the first time I really chatted with him, (can't remember what you called yourself back then) on the Bills board when we were throwing haikus at them left and right. I see Alba, who gave me one of my favorite nicknames (Pavilion). I see all the awards and things that are handed out here after games. I see Vinny, with whom I had many spirited "debates" over the need to sign Mr. Alexander. I see a great site, a great community.

    I would hate to see it go away.

    Why not try to recruit someone from Blue who knows XML?

  6. We were around longer. We even played a role in putting them on the map.

    Was the upgrade even necessary? Was it forced on us, or was this a risk that went bad?

    I dont know jack about this computer stuff, but putting this site to bed is not worth it. I dont see how we help their site get on the map, and get to where its at today and then we're the ones folding it up.

    And noone better tell me we didnt have a major role in getting that site as popular as it is. When it first started getting noticed on here, I googled it on several occassions, and the site was too hidden to get much exposure. Not saying it wouldnt be big without us, but it wouldnt of gotten so big so quickly without us. Its a good site and everything, but I think we deserve credit that they even have half the stuff they had.

    Remember when TC, AZC, and others started popping up on here promoting it? Dont get me wrong, I have no issue towards that because they contributed, but why should we be the ones to pay the price?

    If their site didn't have every single Seattle sport, I prolly wouldnt even be on there much at all, especially once they closed the poker table.

  7. Max:
    It's a matter of convenience and personal preferences, really. I detest cookies, and only accept them from a few essential sites. Blogger is OK for me, since I only visit this particular blog, and I find it doubtful that Blooger cookies would be distributed from other sites. But Google's a different matter; sites such as Google-Watch describe privacy issues with Google's policies, problems I'd like to avoid at all costs. Google has its proverbial hands in a massive number of pots, so to speak, so if I accepted Google cookies I may have them placed on my machine when I'm not expecting it. There are workarounds, of course, but I'd rather not have to do that, and anyway, it's the anticorporate principle of the thing (also the reason I seldom read any of Alba's AOL pieces, though I'm sure their quality did not suffer despite being hosted on that site...) ;-)

    Anyhow, I've never been to Seahawk Blue, 'cause my home is here. It seems to me that this Blogger host would continue to be fine, assuming someone is willing to take the time to tweak it again to make it presentable. Ultimately, it would be ideal to have our own domain/server, but until that day I think this should work. (But I will be sorry that I won't be able to create new posts.)

  8. Thanks guys.

    This is the type of open disussion I was hoping to get on this topic.

    I fully understand the natural reaction to get caught up in "us" and "them", or "here versus "there", but it's it really more about WHO you're spending your on-line time with than WHERE?

    I've grown to enjoy the forum nature of the seahawk Blue site, but being a self-professed glory whore, I love being able to make blog posts and get comments, especially from the friends I've made here at the street. That's why selfishly, having my Street buddies transported to the new SB blog site would be ideal for me. But I also understand that it's not all about me.

    I can also understand and respect CitK's need to maintain his internet privacy. Unfortunately, the upgrade to Google was not a choice, but rather a mandate in order to continue using the free blogging service. Another example of corporate disimprovement.

    Paulie, I'd be happy if we could recruit someone from who knew XML to try and recreate the same functionality we were used to on the old site, however I doubt it'll be someone from the Blue, especially while they're concentrating on bringing up new Forum software and adding a blog.

    We have the ability to make posts, leave comments and chat in the Flooble on this new site. Other than the rotating banners, what else have we lost? Maybe if we can make a list of the missing functionality that we'd really like to see restored, we can get a better idea of what it would take to recreate it.

    All this being said, however, I'd appreciate it if everyone would take a half hour or so to check out the newly revised SB site when it's ready tomorrow, and see what you think about it.

  9. P.S. in short, I'm saying that even though I plan to be a part of the new SB blog, I'm committed to helping maintain the Street if you all don't think melding in with SeahawkBlue is a viable option.

  10. Let the street live. We were here first. We have everything here we need. Nothing against the Blue but come on This is the 12 Seahawks Street.

  11. I coulda said what Meezy said without ranting.

    But hey, its me we're talking about. Gotta pick up the slack for Monkey.

  12. For what it's worth, the new SeahawkBlue site is now up and running. Check it out.

  13. I'm up for sticking around at 12SS as long as it's around.

  14. And so it begins... Getting rebuilt all the hell over again.

    That template and all the bells and whistles that went with it took two years to build.

    If you look to the pane to the right, You'll see a new feature called labels. You create a label on any post you create, and they will show up on the list. When you click on it, it will show all the posts with that label.

    I went throught the last 100 posts ans attatched some labels, mostly just author names. You can add some as you see fit.

    I also tweaked the colors of the blog slightly, to reflect a slightly more Seahawkish appearance.

  15. I think you guys know that I'm all about making the nicest place posssible on a nothing budget. Always have been.

    But I've also maintained that the appearance of this blog is really secondary to your contribution.

    I told alba once that 12 Seahawks Street was like a jar of pickles. The blog is the jar. The contributors are the pickles.

    Nobody buys the jar of pickles because they want the jar. It's the dill they're after. I can make the jar as pleasant as possible with a nice label. That will help.

    But the success of the blog has always been because of you fellas, plain and simple. You brought fun and interesting stuff.

    But things have changed. While the appearance and functionality of the Street was at a new peak, online competition caught up quite a bit. Sando's blog is the place to go for insight and up-to-the-minute news. Blogs like deadspin, AOL, KSK etc., that focus on a wide scope are much more successful, since they can draw on the most hype-laden stories available.

    But here is, despite my efforts to shine up this jar, the unfortunate reality of 12 Seahawks Street: It is in heavy decline.

    We are posting about one-third of the articles as before.

    Traffic has gone from 200-700 unique visitors per day in the first year to about 40-100. When we approached the Super Bowl last year I think we only broke 250 one day. I shit you not.

    Most of our traffic now is from blog browsers who are clicking "next blog" on the blogger navbar, and just happen to land here. Search engine webcrawlers are a significant portion, too. If you think this place has had heavy readership lately, it is only an illusion.

    I'm not saying this to be Debbie Downer, by any means. What I'm trying to convey is the reality of the street, and what we're up against.

    I truly want to make the best possible fan site out there, but it ain't easy.

    I have this theory about sports fan sites. They can provide three basic things in varying degrees, by different methods:

    1. Breaking news
    2. Insightful commentary
    3. A sense of community

    Different fans will look for different things. Some fans prefer one point over another. But the better a site can provide all three, the better it will do, and more suppport it will garner.

    That's why you will see successful sites with news articles AND blogs AND forums.

    We had a very narrow slice of the pie.

    Remember how I tried to create forums on 12 Seahawks Street? Remember how well it went? I think we had a total of about five posts.

    This is why I'm working so hard right now at integrating a publishing machine into SeahawkBlue. I want to create the best platform possible for the freinds I've made here, and anyone else of #12 that would liek to enjoy it. They are a lot like us over there, in that they are doing this without ads, any hope of revenue, out of sheer love of the Seahawks and #12. It's a good fit, they harmonize with what has been our mission.

    But you might wonder, why, in this merger of services, am I willing to let go of the identity of 12 Seahawks Street?

    1. The street was in serious decline, as mentioned before.
    2. It is purely and strangely psychological, but it's not really a merger in the minds of the user if the two sides look different, and have different names. It's still "over here" and "over there." There is little crossing over. And the two sides could REALLY KICK SOME ASS if they were completely unified. Take a look at Seahawks.NET, and the combination of articles and forums. They cover the 3 basic things fairly well. Ideally, you want your site to do the same.
    3. It's on their server. I'm not paying out for server space, and I hadn't found anyone volunteer to foot the bill. is the domain, so it is.

    Most of all I just want you to know that I am still completely committed to making and being a part of the best damn fan site on the internet. That has not changed. There are a lot more things to come on the near horizon, now that we have the traffic and the server. Things we we could never do before on this site but now we'll have the support ot enjoy it.

    I'm SO VERY PROUD of what we have accomplished here on 12 Seahawks Street. I have enjoyed every moment and have no regrets. But this was just the beginning.

    But I completely repect anyone's wishes to keep it going, and to be a part of it. If you enjoy it, that is all that matters.

  16. Well said Bloof.

    I'd only add that if we're going to rebuild the Street, we should stay away from custom code and too much advanced programming, so that it can more easily be passed from Admin to Admin, and more easily upgraded when Google forces us to.

    It's really ironic that we're asking contributors to go against the quality that makes us such avid Seahawks fans - - which is LOYALTY.

    I truly understand everyone's devotion to this site, but Bloof does speak the truth.

  17. So what I'm getting out of this is Bloof wants our pickles?

    The problem I have with the Blue is that it's more of a message board format, and less of a blog. If you added a publishing area that would be similar to the street (which is what you're talking about I believe), I'd be down for transferring my loyalties.

  18. I just spent some time over at the Blue, looking around, and I have to say I like it. I am a pretty stubborn guy with my allegiances, I go home with the girl I brought so to speak. But I also believe in upgrading when possible, and especially when needed.

    The biggest concern I had about the blue was the difference in styles, I felt like the Blue was more of a forum deal, while the street was a blog. I felt a little elitist, because the blog format required more thought and better writing skills than posting a "Hey, what do we think about Jerramy Stevens" topic in a forum. Bloof (I remember now, it was boomdiggydiggy, wasn't it?) has set up a "front page" section that serves our purpose very well.

    The other thing that bothered me was the loss of status. Let's face it, we are proud that this is our site, that we set it up and we maintain it. I haven't been as active lately as I was in years past, but I still have alot of pride in the things that go on here. But all of us started new somewhere, I know the original group started at the PI, and the rest of you came in from elsewhere. We can definitely gain status on a new site just as quickly. (look at Bloof, it seems like he's practically running the joint!)

    I guess what I'm saying is that everyone needs to go check the place out. If you do, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

  19. The street sure was a purty bitch, and she'll be missed.

    I'm with Paulie, I'm an elitist and prefer not the blog format, in fact I prefer the board, but the street has good writers who have coherent thoughts and either use spell check or know how to spell. In the brief time I've spent there I thought that the majority of contributors are knee jerkers or blind loyalists, and distinctly lack the ability to detect humor on any level, and if I want to deal with that I'll email Vinny and Cit K exclusively, cutting out the middle men!

    Eh, who am I kidding, I'm gonna go mess with the yahoos on, and I'll probably resume comments on blue in a couple of weeks once FA heats up. Kiss my ass and suck my balls douchebags. XOXO, JoSCh

  20. JoSCh - that's exactly why we need guys like you and Paulie, CitK and check and Vinny over there - - - which is to add a little dissention and humor to the mutual admiration society.

    And now that Bloof and I are admins over there, don't worry about anyone giving you the bum's rush, just because they don't have the ironic appreciation enough to get your STFU in sign-language avatar.

    Jump on in, the water's nice!

  21. Before the Nuclear bomb dropped, I was real proud to tell people that I am a writer at the Street. I was proud to have them go in and see what I helped develop. The look of the site made it look like it was a number one quality site. Being writers here is what mattered to me. I worked at forums and while they were fun, it was meyhem with no real direction, no real unity. There was some Loyaly but it wasn't deep. people would turn on others for seemingly no real reason. I didn't see that here. I have never felt like some were turn coats. people just didn't seem to want to be part of a click here, they just wanted to be fans, writers and have a blast. While the looks of the place, may have just been a jar, It was that jar that I wanted to be a pickle in. The jar looked real cool and it reflected how cool the pickles were in the jar.

    People will take a look at this new/old jar and never attempt to even pick it up due to the lack of visual stimulation. It's an advertising fact. I felt that we may have been in decline, but didn't know for sure. the trick is to make the needed adjustment to be on the rise. I clearly want to keep the Street. I also want to be here when we challenge for domain supremecy.

    The Hurricane came blowing thru and it's over. Some will stay and rebuild. others will pack up and leave. The question is, which one are you?

  22. "the trick is to make the needed adjustment to be on the rise. I clearly want to keep the Street. I also want to be here when we challenge for domain supremecy."

    Well, you better start learning XML. It's not gonna happen by itself. If you can do it, more power to you. In fact, I'll hand you the keys.

    And to the bitch known as JoSCh - igotyerbackbuddy.