From Sando:The Seahawks have informed Pro Bowl LG Steve Hutchinson that he will be their transition player. An announcement is expected soon. This means Hutchinson receives a one-year, $6.391 million offer. He can solicit offers from other teams once free agency begins. The Seahawks can keep him by matching any offers. They would receive no compensation if they declined to match. This is a chance to find out what teams are willing to pay an elite guard.
WHAT THIS MEANS: The Seahawks can continue negotiating a long-term deal for Hutchinson with his agent, Tom Condon, until March 17, at which time contract negotiations must cease until mid-July. Other teams can make offers from March 3 until July 22, with the Seahawks having the right to match any offer.
Very Interesting...odd idea, too...they must be REAL confident they can get a long term deal out there...basically, all they have to do, is resign him before free agency begins on March 3rd...then no one would even get a chance to offer him anything
UPDATE: Foster is wearing the transition tag currently, which would project his salary to be $5.13 million for 2006. However, the Panthers do have the option of revoking the tag if they were to go after Shaun Alexander. Revoking the tag would clear $5.13 million under the salary cap....another words...the Panthers are making a cheap move...smart, but cheap...they managed to get around the rules
Wow! The transition tag. I'm suprised by that. I thought he would have gotten the big F tag. Let's hope Ruskill is reading the table right and some dumb-ass owner doesn't go nuts. Makes you wonder who they're saving the big F tag for...Marquand...it can't be Rocky...hmmm
ReplyDeletePosted by bokonon
they arent using it...im positive now
ReplyDeleteif they wanted to use it, why not spend the extra 600K to get Hutch AND scare teams away with the 2 First rounder compensation picks?
the only way i can see them doing this, is if they are absolutely positive they will resign Hutch
there are few rules i want to know about the T Tag...
1) If the first team that offers him a deal is matched...does that take him off the market? Or can other teams beat out the first one, causing us to keep matching until he gets the max offer?
2) Can we resign him before FA? Will we get penalized for it?
3) What would the penalty be? The F Tag penalty keeps you from using it again for the duration of the contract...since this is the T Tag...thats a risk we can take, as its less important...
Im very confused...I know the rules to the tags, I just dont understand the offer sheets (unless we're talking RFAs), and I dont understand the deadlines of when we can talk long term and when we would get penalized
They can only use the franchise OR transition tag, not both. If they still had a franchise tag, it would not be prudent, IMO, to use it on any of the other FA's.
ReplyDeleteI read today that agents are telling their clients not to sign a deal until some time in March due to the CBA being unresolved. Combine this with the fact that there are salary cap ramifications for teams that sign players before the new CBA is in place and it's no surprise the deal did not get done. For those unaware, the number of years a signing bonus is to be prorated over is currently smaller than it has been and will likely be once a new CBA is in place. This hurts teams' abilities to give out these bonuses and, hence, sign players. I'm still pretty optimistic a long-term deal gets worked out as it's in both parties' interest to do so (assuming a new CBA is reached at some point).
Posted by mfan
The transition tag makes me kind of happy and scared. This way we can keep negotiating but what if a desperate team really opens up the check book and does a crazy offer what then.
ReplyDeleteI'm with u ADP i think that this means the team is really close to a deal and want to keep negotiating.
Sorry can't answer any of your questions.
Posted by meezy
great point, mfan...
ReplyDeletethis goes back to Jones' deal...should the CBA be extended, Jones' signing bonus will spread out throughout his contract
for example, say you had Meezy here sign a 7 year deal...and his signing bonus was 28 mill
You could split the bonus up at 4 mill a year, for 7 years...BUT, the CBA expires after 2007 I believe...since there is no CBA after 2007, the bonus (or guaranteed) money has to be paid while there is a CBA...which means all 28 mill has to be paid BEFORE the CBA expires...
right now, should the CBA extend, teams everywhere will have several contract bonuses stretched out, giving everyone more cap relief...so with only 2 years left with the CBA, signing super players will be hard...if we gave Hutch a 15 mill signing bonus...its gotta be paid immediately, giving us 7.5 mill for the next two years to pay him...again, if the CBA gets fixed, that money can be spread out further...
sorry if i confused anyone, i just figured id break down the CBA situation a little more
right now the NFL is really hurting teams who have huge named free agents to resign...im still confused of how the Colts got a 6 year deal done with Wayne...they remind me of the Titans...sign everyone, and pay for it later...too bad they havent made the SB like the Titans did
Posted by adp
OK, I've done some looking at the CBA because, while we know quite a bit about the franchise designation, we (I at least) know less about the transition tag. I think I've found answers to ADP's questions.
ReplyDeleteDISCLAIMER: I have not read the entire CBA (it's quite lengthy). I've only read the sections I think are relevant. There could be some subtle legalize somewhere in the CBA that messes with the logic I've provided below, but I think what I'm stating is accurate.
First, I read the section regarding other teams and matching any offers. It seems that there is no restriction on the number of offers Hutch may obtain and that the Hawks would sign a "right of first refusal", indicating they match that offer. The CBA says nothing about only being able to obtain one offer from one other team. Having said that, for practical purposes, a franchise or transition player is rarely going to be getting offers from other teams (though it does happen), let alone a second offer, because of the threat of getting matched. It seems unlikely that a team would watch the Hawks match the first offer he receives and then waste their time making him another offer, knowing it's likely they'll get matched as well.
As for the penalties regarding the signing of a transition player, I believe the section of the CBA I've included below is relevant. Note that it says nothing of a transition player using up the tag for the duration of the contract. It also states that any team (including, but not limited to, the Hawks) may sign him at any time. It appears to me that we don't have the same "date problems" we all became so familiar with during the Walter Jones saga. I think we can sign him at any time without risk of using up the franchise tag.
Section 9. Duration of Designation: Each Club that signs a player it designated as a Franchise Player to a Player Contract shall be deemed each League Year thereafter to have utilized its Franchise Player designation for each League Year for which such player entered into a Player Contract with such Club at the time when such player was subject to such designation (unless the Club exercised a Right of First Refusal with respect to a Franchise Player tendered a Player Contract pursuant to Sections 2(b)(ii)
Posted by mfan
The part of the CBA relating to the dates during which transition players can be signed:
ReplyDelete(b) Any Club that designates a Transition Player shall receive the Rights of First Refusal specified in this Article notwithstanding the number of his Accrued Seasons. Any Transition Player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club during the period from the first day of the League Year following the expiration of his last player contract to July 15, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs of any kind, subject only to the Prior Club�s Right of First Refusal described in this Article.
Posted by mfan
ahhh! i got conflicting reports
ReplyDeleteim being told that we only have to match one offer, and im being told there is no penalty to the Transition Tag
the latter, if true, would be a reason why they would TTag him...
im still really confused...and not to sound real dumb, but there are too many big words in the CBA thingy!...that combined with me not sleeping at all waiting for the deadline is not good!...so im getting a nap in a sec
Posted by adp
After further reflection, I think it may be correct that they only have to match one offer, though I found no language indicating such in the CBA. It makes sense, though. If a player has agreed to an offer sheet, he is locked into that contract if the offer sheet is not matched. It seems logical that he would also be locked into those terms, as well, if the offer sheet was matched. I think this is right. As for there being no penalty for signing a player who is under the transition tag, I'm fairly certain that is accurate.
ReplyDeletePosted by mfan
if this is all accurate, then the best case scenerio would be to sign him before anyone else gives him an offer
ReplyDeletemaybe the TTag was just to buy time, in a sense...if those two points are accurate, then i dont see much of a problem TTagging him...ESPECIALLY if you dont get penalized like you would in a FTag...i dont care if he is the highest paid Guard in football, after all he is the best G in football...just a matter of which team wants to piss us off most, and offer him something ludicrous
Posted by adp
to take away the threat of a crazy contract (which would likely happen later rather then sooner)...just beat the league to the punch
ReplyDeleteI believe that you "loose" the franchise tag for the duration of a contract if the player signs a new contract while being franchised. The roll of the "tender" offer is to get the franchised player off the tag and under a 1 year contract, thus freeing up the tag for the next.
ReplyDeletePosted by bokonon
Mike Sando cleared a few things up:
ReplyDeleteWe get penalized if we sign or negotiate before he signs the one year tender...the same tender Walt and Shaun waited forever to sign...
So thats one thing down...just got up from a 2 hour nap...this stuff is draining!
Posted by adp
Whats the penalty. Does it mean that we lose the tag for the duration of the contract or is it something else.
ReplyDeletePosted by meezy
Mike never said that in anything I've seen. The "official release" said that. I don't know how that could be accurate given the sections of the CBA I've posted above. The important part being:
ReplyDeleteAny Transition Player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club during the period from the first day of the League Year following the expiration of his last player contract to July 15, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction.
Posted by mfan
Meezy - the penalty would be losing the tag during the entire duration of a long term contract...another words, if signed Hutch for 7 years before he signed the tender (the reason players dont like signing it is because it gets them out of training camp...and it allows them to get offers from everyone)...so if we signed Hutch 7 year before the tender is signed, we are penalized so we cant use the tag for those 7 years
ReplyDeleteMfan and everyone else - my apologies, Sando did say that, but turns out he was talking about the franchise tag under his Hutch Topic...so i dunno
Posted by adp
FYI - The "official release" was written by Mike Kahn at .com. He says:
ReplyDeleteThe Seahawks and Hutchinson have until March 17 to negotiate a contract. If a contract is not signed by that date, the club will be required to wait until July to resume negotiations.
This is incomplete, anyway. They aren't forced to wait until July regardless of whether the player is franchise or transition. The CBA is pretty clear that they can sign them at any time. It's that they must wait until after July 15 if they want to keep the tag.
The CBA is pretty careful in distinguishing between Franchise and Transition players throughout the CBA. In the section relating to the tag being used up for the duration of the contract (posted above), it clearly says Franchise player and does NOT say Transition player.
Posted by mfan
so basically, the Seahawks need to resign him before March 17th...or they have to wait until July...
ReplyDeletesee, i knew there was deadlines for the tag before penalties kick in, but its great to finally know what deadlines are
thanks!...
Except that I don't think it's accurate. I don't think they have to wait unti July. Those are the rules for a FRANCHISE player, not a transition player. I'm sure it will become more clear in the next few weeks.
ReplyDeletePosted by mfan
Mike now does have a post up where he indicates that the Hawks WOULD have to give up the tag if he is signed between mid-March and mid-July. I don't know? We'll find out, I guess.
ReplyDeletePosted by mfan
Mike now does have a post up where he indicates that the Hawks WOULD have to give up the tag if he is signed between mid-March and mid-July. He says he asked some league sources who are in the know so I'd bet that he's right.
ReplyDeletePosted by mfan
From the times:
ReplyDeleteThe Seahawks can continue negotiating a long-term deal for Hutchinson with his agent, Tom Condon, until March 17, at which time contract negotiations must cease until mid-July. Other teams can make offers from March 3 until July 22, with the Seahawks having the right to match any offer.
END
BULLSEYE...we got it solved!...took alot of time consuming effort, but we got it...thanks mfan for the help!
BOTTOMLINE IS:
We can sign him long term before March 3, and noone can do anything about it...technically its like trying to resign our FAs before FA opens...im positive this will be done
takes a LOAD off my mind...not to mention Sonics got 2 good deals done...im excited! Now if KeyArena can be fixed...
screw worrying about how many offers he can sign (which appears to be one anyways)
ReplyDeletelets just get him signed before teams can start offering him contracts!
Giving Mike Reinfeldt almost an extra week is like bending a banana tree down to a monkey...
ReplyDelete...easy pickings!
(i know i coulda came up with a better one had i taken more time)
I'll bet IF a new CBA gets done, the Franchise and Transition tags will go the way of the Dodo Bird, so it won't matter even if we lose it for Hutch's contract.
ReplyDeleteNow, the Panther's are in the exact same position with Foster, so they may not really be out of the Alexander running.
If some other team offers Foster a deal that Carolina thinks is too rich for his talents (and they would know) they may still let him walk and turn their sites on Shaun.
The Sando piece also noted that JJ has hired a new agent, the same guy who represents Matt, so that may bode well in Seahawksland as well.
It'll be an interesting off season for sure.
(I'm back in Albany now and REALLY tired!!!)
Posted by alba
actually, i just got done updating my topic, particularly the piece on Carolina...they are actually using a loophole...
ReplyDelete...try to get Shaun, and if they need to, dump Foster for an extra 5 mill to spend...and if they cant get Shaun...they have Foster already tagged
meanwhile, in JJLand...Cleveland really wants him, and hes from around that area or something like that
Posted by adp