That is the question.
The Vikings have called our Transition Tag bluff, and now it's time to see what kind of poker face Ruskell & Co. really have.
Minnesota went "all in" with a 7-year $49M offer that includes in $16M guaranteed money, and Seattle is wondering if it's worth pulling for the inside straight.
Matching the offer eats up a good deal of our attractive cap situation, but maintains consistency on arguably the best offensive line in football.
Not matching the offer relieves Seattle of the $6.3M of cap burden allocated to the Transition Tag, so we could start signing free agents like drunken sailors on shore leave!
The question is, can Pork Chop and Willis and Spencer and Locklear (and even Hunter) fill in for arguably the best offensive guard in the game?
The good news is that this happened quickly, so the seven day matching clock has started to tick, and it also removes our paralysis from being active in free agency. We now know what cap room we'll have, with or without Hutch, so we can make some offers to other guys while we tie up $49M of the Vikings payroll for a week.
When all is said and done, I think we resign Hutch, especially since Ruskell seems to prefer the "low hanging fruit" to the big name free agents, and we'll still have about $10M in cap space to sign more high-motor guys like Darby and Herndon and Tafoya.
What do you think?
they have to match...the oline is the most important thing to have...and even more specifically...unity...
ReplyDeletewe lose unity, and we probably hurt ourselves of having the best oline in football (McKinnie and Hutch would make Minny's jump up there)
I say the importance of our players are as followed:
1. Hass
2. Jones
3. Hutch (keep in mind, Shaun punches his 1 yd tds behind him, and our sweep game will suffer without him running out there with Strong)
4. Tatupu (now that we saw he can stay consistent throughout the whole year)
5. Alexander
Gs dont get as much as T...but considering the importance of him on our roster, we gotta pay up
our FO put themselves in this position, and better not screw the fans over...granted they did try, offering him a monster 5.8 mill a year...but still, the TTag was wayyyy too risky...FTag would scare teams away...
it wouldnt be fair for the FANS to be penalized by a risky and turns out to be STUPID move...i realize they dont wanna overpay...by 5.8 for a G is overpaying
after year one is over with, Hutch's deal would prolly be in the range of our contract offer per year---another words, arounds 6 MILL...if you can offer 5.8 a year...then you can match 6 mill a year, and just ignore the first year
THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!:
---------------------
SHOULD WE MATCH...THE TAG IS REMOVED, GIVING US 6 MORE MILL TO PUT TOWARDS YEAR ONE...SO TECHNICALLY, YEAR ONE WILL COST THE SAME AS THE OTHER YEARS...THE BOTTOMLINE IS, IF THE FIRST YEAR IS THE RUMORED 13 MILL...WE JUST NEED TO ADD 7 MILL...THATS NOT AS KILLER AS IT SOUNDS, AS THE OTHER YEARS WILL PROBABLY BE 6/YEAR
its doable, and should be done...im just worried the FO doesn't want to overpay, because they're going to have to...
...if there was any time the FO can earn my trust...it would be this situation.
Now that we know what he is worth lets sign him. What do we have the cap room for? To sign players right. Well can u think of a better player then Hutch that is a free agent that u would want. Who cares if we are over paying him. If Minnesota is willing to do it we should too.
ReplyDeleteMatch the Deal and Keep The Most Dominant O-Line In Football Intact.
why the hell didn't Ruskell franchise him? It was 600,000 dollar difference.
Posted by meezy
from a fan's standpoint, i dont like the thought of it...BUT...if i were them, id have my mind made up to match once i get the details, and if they turn out to be what everyone is hearing...and make them wait 7 days
ReplyDeletethey wanna mess with us...get them back!
they already let skjdfkahTRACYWHITEfdjkafkj go...they better not let another great player go (kay...maybe stretching it there...)
I'm really torn on this. I don't want to pay a guard tackle money. I don't want to start a trend of making it "OK" to allow big payoffs to role (albeit very strong role) players.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, the one big hit will be over this year, and we'll have the best guard in the business for 6 million a year, a little less than the transition tag we were going to pay him.
I think we should sign him.
Posted by PaulieP
I wanna see if i can reword my HUGE point better:
ReplyDeleteer-erm
6 mill a year after the first year, right?...well the first year will cost us 6-7 mill anyways...as the TTag already took a chunk of the big first year hit...instead of paying 13 of our 20 mill or whatever...we're only paying an additional 6-7...
DO IT
The economics of the Franchise tag go well beyond the $600k difference.
ReplyDeleteFirst, paying a Guard over $6M was unheard of before today, so the Trans tag was more in line with his salary.
Second, the Fran tag usually leads to a one year contract, discord between the player and the front office, and a training camp hold out.
Third, the Fran tag would put Hutch and the Seahawks in exactly the same boat next year, but to franchise him again would cost an additional 20%, which is just OUTRAGEOUS money for a Guard.
The Trans tag was NOT stupid. Believe it or not, we're NOW in the driver's seat.
We know what Hutch will cost, so we've got 7 days to sign other Free Agents, all the while tying up a major chunk of Minnesota's cap room.
In the end, I think we match. But with Pork Chop, Willis, Spencer and Hunter available, we won't be "dead" without him either.
Posted by alba
ADP, you can rationalize it that way, but it's still 13 million. Saying it that way is the same as saying that we got Shaun for free, plus a million, because the cap increase was actually more than his cap hit.
ReplyDeletePosted by PaulieP
Willis is a tackle
ReplyDeleteHunter is a tackle
Pork Chop will have to take over in the future for Gray
Spencer will have to take over in the future for Tobeck
Both Gray and Tobeck are in the twilight of their careers
I rather Tom Rouen in the oline over Hunter
Posted by adp
im just saying, people act like we'd be paying 13 mill out of what we have right now...when its not the case
ReplyDeletewe'd only be paying an additional 6 of the 17 mill we have
that leaves 11 mill to sign draft picks and several role players
Willis and Hunter are Tackles, but with Pork Chop having experience at Guard, I thought he might step into the starting LG spot, and have the other guys as backups.
ReplyDeleteWe'll get at least one more year out of Tobeck and Gray, and that may be all we need before some other premiere yet reasonably priced Guard becomes available.
Spencer played Guard in college, so it could also be a way of realizing some benefit from the investment in him last year, before Tobeck is ready to give up snapping the ball.
Just thinking creatively here, like we had to every year WJ held out of camp!
Posted by alba
Sign the man or i might re-enter my post superbowl depression. Pay him there is no one better on the market.
ReplyDeletePosted by meezy
If we lose Hutch make Spencer the RG and draft Mangold as Tobeck's replacement makes sense to me Spencer is freakin huge and can play RG he did it for 3 years in college.
ReplyDeletePosted by meezy
Citizen,
ReplyDeleteWhat about getting Daunte in the trade? I can think of a number of things to do with him in a trade for us not to match.
1. Keep him as a backup to Hass and free Seneca to be our WR threat. (this I think is the least likely)
2. Trade him to New Orleans and pick up their draft spot in the draft this year.
3. Trade him to NO and get a draft and a backup QB for him and one or two of our picks.
4. Trade him to Miami. I don't like this one but it would depend on Brees and who Miami would offer us.
5. Trade him to the Jets - the Jets still don't know about Pennington. Maybe get Abraham for him without giving up our two first round picks.
Lots of possibilities - no answers until the 7th day, that is almost a guarantee. Unless the Vikings are willing to give some more for a quick decision so we don't tie up their salary cap.
Don't ya just love this horse tradin'?
Posted by hawkman
With the new numbers coming out, I think the Hawks will match. It's not a big hit, and it will be worth it later.
ReplyDeleteAs for Daunte, we'd also need to absorb his salary, and I definitely don't want to risk having him on our team with that salary if we can't find a trade partner.
Posted by PaulieP
Some interesting points regarding Hutch's contract. Kind of an odd provision to give a guard.
ReplyDeletePosted by PaulieP
when is someone going to remove those porn links
ReplyDeletePosted by Anonymous
How do you know they're porn links? Did you click on them?
ReplyDeletePosted by Huh?
And if you did, are they any good? If so, please leave them until after business hours... can't check at work...
ReplyDeleteAnywho, I'm gonna trust the big brains on this... is Hutch the best guard in all the land, sure. Is he 6 Mil per year better than Davin Joseph, probably the best guard in the draft? I doubt it. If Hutch walks for top 5 T $$$, I can't blame him, and I can't blame the FO for passing.
I don't like the C-Pepp trade idea, because if he is damaged and nobody wants him we got nothing, and his boneheaded moves lately. I wouldn't mind getting something (draft pick?) from the Queens to promise not to match, I can't imagine them doing that though, but we'll see.
Posted by JoSCh
We aren't the sonics. We have good management. We will match this.
ReplyDeletePosted by Alan
Speak for yourself, rich boy!
ReplyDeletePosted by Not me!
sorry JoSCh, killed the porn before I saw your post.
ReplyDeletehere's something to make it up to you:
www.penthouse.com
Posted by alba
LOL, I suppose it's ok. I'll just have to figure out some other way to find porn on the internet, if I apply all of my resources I'm sure I'll find some.
ReplyDeleteSome very interesting stuff regarding Hutch from PFT , who on occasion get stuff right, and are usually a funny read regardless. The gist is that Hutch got an A-Rod type of deal, in which Hutch will be the highest player on whatever team signs him, and if he isn't, his whole contract becomes guaranteed. What that means is if he were to sign with the Hawks, his whole contract is guaranteed, because Hass, Walt, and Shaun already make more than his new contract (I think). If true, I'd imagine it also means that C-Pepp is gone from Minny, as he is the highest paid guy there. This is weird, and I'm not sure I believe it, as this would severely limit Minny's ability to get big name FA's in the future. We'll see I guess.
Posted by JoSCh
Everyone so far has ignored this key point: the Vikings are a-holes.
ReplyDeleteFirst the rehabbing of K-Drop's career, and now this. I wish them many more Love Boat scandals.
Posted by Uff
Over the beers, the Vikes have traded roles with the Raiduhs. It used to be that Oakland was the last resort for the rough-edged misfits, stoners, and troubled careers. Now they are the haven for aging prima donnas, where former pro-bowlers, who lost a step and their desire, go to get paid. The Vikings now represent the classless, juicing, STD spreading heathen of the NFL.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, I agreee, Uffy.
Posted by Bluefoot
On the contrary, I think new owner Ziggy and new HC Childress will be performing the queer eye makeover on the roster, starting with perennial good guy and pro bowler Steve Hutchinson as their center piece. That said, I'm not sure that LG is the place to start. Maybe they think he can help McKinney (LT), grow into his own. I ain't picking the always resurgent Queens to win this year for sure.
ReplyDeletePosted by JoSCh
Can't wait until they visit Qwest field next year. Whether they sign Hutch or not, there's enough bad blood brewing between the organizations to make it much more than just a game!
ReplyDeleteWhat I wouldn't give to see the Hammer dropped on K-Rob a couple of times!
Posted by alba
I heard Sando on the radio this morning. He said the way the guarenteed money is structured is key to this situation. Basically 10M is a signing bonus, 6M is a roster bonus, and the base salary is around 500K. The 10M can be pro-rated against the cap, but the 6M cannot. That means to sign him would be just over 8M for the first year, then drop to 2M + base the rest of the contract. Since the transition tag was basically 6M, to sign him really represents only 2M extra--leaving the Hawks 13M under the cap. Now if the team were up against the cap this might be a big issue, but in their situation it seems like a no-brainer.
ReplyDeleteIn the end this will be a very interesting statement about the state of the line. If they let him go, then they seem to be saying that Floyd is "good enough" between WJ and Tobeck, and that Spencer and Hunter are on course to replace Tobeck and Gray should they faulter. If they keep him it could be just as much a statement about the replacing Tobeck and Gray as it is about having the cap room.
Posted by bokonon
how about trade the rights to match for...
ReplyDelete...KRob?
ok seriously...id like their draft pick...that would be funny...they wanna play hardball with us...not only would they have to pay a huge contract, they'd have to give up their 1st rounder on top of it!...talk about getting your hand stuck in the cookie jar...
we took a risky move and we were caught with our pants down...at least we have underwear...now we can catch Minny going commando! (not that i say that literally)
Posted by adp
I had another post but now I really gotta pee.
ReplyDeletePosted by Bluefoot
Im surprised none of you are talking about the Poison Pill that might of been implemented in his contract
ReplyDeleteProfootballtalk.com reports that the Vikings included a "poison pill" that will make it very difficult for the Seahawks to match his offer sheet.
Hutchinson's 2006 cap number is either $13 million or $8.5 million, depending on the source. But the Vikings deal reportedly "contains a provision that makes the entire deal guaranteed if Hutchinson at any point becomes anything other than the highest paid player on the team." With Walter Jones around, this would hypothetically guarantee Hutch's $49 million contract.
Thats rotoworld...and yeh, i hope to goodness its not true...i will serious hate the Vikings if so...and i will severely dislike Hutch for making such a deal
Posted by adp
Only the Vikes would make a move that stupid.
ReplyDeleteThe highest paid player a GUARD!?!?!? Not only that, but a 49 mil guaranteed contract? Morons!
And think what his prospective teammates would think of that, and the climate of one-upmanship and selfisheness that it promotes.
I'll believe it when I see it. If the Vikes are actually doing that, they are crapping in their own canoe.
Posted by Bluefoot
adp, I mentioned it briefly, but not specifically. I'm waiting for Sando to comment on it before we take it for fact.
ReplyDeletePosted by PaulieP
same here...but hes getting bombarded with the same questions and the same 'comments'...
ReplyDeleteWitherspoon was signed early yesterday...yet 400 people are reporting it tonight over there...hes overrated and will probably be their back 7's best player...but he would be our 3rd best LB at best...no worries...im glad Archuleta is gone though, though hes overrated too
The most legit signing to worry about so far in our division is Arizona with Edge...but until they get an oline, im treating him like an average RB, which we've dominated before
But man, this Hutch situation has me on edge...i really didnt expect all this drama
Posted by adp
For whoever wanted Finneran...he re-upped with Atlanta
ReplyDeleteAccording to Adam Shefter on NFL Network, the "poison pill" exists, but it guarantee kicks in if Hutch isn't the highest paid LINEMAN on the team, knowing that if Seattle matched, Walter Jones' deal would enable the guarantee.
ReplyDeleteHutch allowed the Seahawks to Transition him in good faith, and then turned around and stabbed them in the back.
Who would have thunk that it would be Shaun Alexander to do the right think, and Hutch to be the money grubbing egotist?
PHUCK HIM.
Posted by alba
"Im surprised none of you are talking about the Poison Pill that might of been implemented in his contract "
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised you didn't read the post 8 above yours... skimmers!
Posted by JoSCh
Whatever the decision, I believe this whole scenario is EXACTLY the reason the FO T-tagged him rather than F-tag him.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine going through MONTHS and MONTHS of this agony and speculation during the off- and pre-seasons, for two years, if Hutch was Franchised?
Will he sign the tender?
Will he come to camp?
Will it hurt the chemistry of the O-line?
Has it damaged the relationship between him and the front office?
Has it damaged the relationship between him and the coaches?
Who will give us 2-first rounders for him?
Should we let him go for less?
The FO are bastards for franchising him.
He's an idot for not sighing the tender.
.....and on, and on, and on.
I think the FO knew that by T-tagging him, he'd either be a Seahawk for life, or be playing somewhere else, but they wouldn't have this albatross hanging around their necks for more than a few weeks, and then everyone would be able to get on with their lives.