While I love to talk free agents, and speculating on draft picks always gets me excited, the biggest and first priority for our beloved Hawks has to be the Front Office. I've accumulated quite a bit of information over the last month or so on which way our Front Office might or might not be headed, and I thought a blog dedicated to Front Office discussion might be useful. That being said, I found some bad news for those of us hoping desperately for Randy Mueller to be back in the Seahawks organization.
Pro Football Weekly has apparently reported that Mueller has slipped a little in the eyes of the Hawks, because he would like to come in and completely overhaul the teams scouting department, and a complete overhaul wouldn't make Holmgren Happy.
This worries me for a number of reasons. We've already lost scouting personnel this off season, and dropping more could be costly, but at the same time, Randy knows what he's doing, and should be given control. The fact that Holmgren's opinion about the scouting department could keep Mueller from working with the Hawks, implies that Mueller (or whoever is brought in) wouldn't have the control they need, and we could be headed for another power struggle, which is never a good thing.
On top of this, the team needs to get serious about getting our free agents signed. There are already rumors that the Pack are persuing Hass, even though we all know he's coming back. Shaun is being written off, even though Mort says he wants to be back. Chike's agent is almost beside himself, because nothing is getting done, and I don't even want to discuss what Poston is probably doing. (I hate Poston).
Bottom Line, I really want Holmgren to just coach. I really want Mueller in charge of all personnel decisions. And I really want Reinfeldt in charge of almost everything else.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple things.
ReplyDelete#1 As the Coach of the Hawks and the guy drawing up the game plans Mike 'has' to have a lot of say in who gets signed and hired, and actually I'm starting to think that maybe Mueller isn't the best choice. And I guess if he was the clear cut first/best choice he'd be hired already. Perhaps the FO guys know more than they're saying publicly.
#2 On you comment about Chike's agent, the story in today's S.T.......
'CHIKE WANTS TO STAY' (Headline)
Chike Okeafor's agent say the defensive end wants to stay with the Seahawks but is prepared to enter free agency.
Okeafor is among 16 Seahawks scheduled to hit the open market on march 2. His agent, Andrew Simms, met with team officials in Seattle last week.
Asked if Okeafor wanted to stay in Seattle, Simms said, "Absolutely, no question about it.But if it doesn't happen before March 2, then he'll test the open market.
The Seahawks are without a team president, but Simms doesn't think that will havew a huge effect on negotiations.
"The guys that are there are very competent," he said. "Of course, they are in transition. But as far as our communication with them. it's been pretty consistant. I don't feel like it will inhibit outr ability to negotiate with them."
#3 Bottom line is that few coaches out there 'just coach', Mike 'must' have his hands in the goings on with the team, and to say that he shouldn't isn't being realistic. Mike knows what he wants and needs as far as players, so to say that he shouldn't have a say in the signing and drafting process isn't, as I said, very realistic.
I guess I misspoke a little when I said that he should just coach. Of course he should have some say in who the team drafts and who the team brings in as a free agent. But to keep a person who is, to most people, the obvious choice for any front office position out of the organization because the coach doesn't want to lose a few scouts? That's ludicrous. Mueller is widely regarded as one of the most intelligent, and best personnel people in football. Holmgren is one of the best coaches. While each has influence over the other, why not let them stick to their respective strengths?
ReplyDeleteI also spoke perhaps a bit early on the Chike. I can't recall the article I read, but obviously I misinterpreted what Chike's thoughts were on the lack of direction in the Front Office. I did read todays article about him, and realized right away that I may have been wrong on how I interpreted things. But, I can say with the utmost confidence that if it is his view that the vacant positions will not have a large effect on his decisions, he is in the vast minority among our free agents, and free agents in general. They need to get this taken care of.
Don't back too far off from what you said Paulie P, I think it is important to say that Holmgren's influence on this team should remain within the normal peramiters of a head coach. Vinny is just a huge Holmgren fan, you could tell Vinny that Holmgren was a mass murderer and he would just say that Mike probably had a good reason and that he still trusts his judgement.
ReplyDeleteYour oints were well made, regarding the begginings of panic at not having a president, the free agents have repeatedly stated that they are losing faith.
Also, where it concerns a potential power struggle, it is so easy to place all of the blame for past mistakes squarely on Whitsitt, but that is not entirely the case. Like my mom used to tell me when I got into a fight, "it takes two to tango", in other words, if Holmgren wasn't pushing back, there would have been no discention. After all, who (other than Vinny) really believes that Holmgren wasn't very resentful of being asked to step down as GM? Who here (other than Vinny) really believes that it was 100% Witsitt causing the problems. Mike has a huge ego, has always had a huge ego and always will have a huge ego, there can be no doubt that he is partially culpable for the problems in the F.O. People seem to forget that the reason Holmgren was forced out of the GM role, was because he did a lousy job at it. He needs to stay away from gm types of decisions (I am NOT talking about having an influence on the players brought in here, EVERY head coach is allowed some influence there) I am talking about the normal GM decisions which he used to make but can't seem to let go of.
monkey, monkey, monkey, not very nice. You're right I am a huge Mike fan, but that has nothing to do with my stance on the FO hooplah, the guys that we're waiting on won't have much to do with the signing of our FAs(by the way where are the statements by the FAs that backs your' assertion, that they are bothered by the lack of FO movement?)
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't think that Mike was robbed of his GM title because he was lousy at the job, more like he was forced out by Whit, after all who wants to share the spotlight? And I also agree that Mike has a huge ego, most great Coaches do(The Ditkas, Johnsons, Parcells, and others to many to mention).
And I'm starting to question the professed talent of Mueller, if he was this great football guru, why is he still not hired by someone? Why haven't we spent whatever it would take to get him? Perhaps he's not as valued as you say. After all who are the people saying all these things about him, his boys from the media? Again, if he's so great why isn't he here already?
When this FO circus finally goes by I think we'll all feel pretty stupid for getting so worked up over all this. I have faith in Mike, Mike, Ray and Paulk to get the job done. After all they are some of the best at what they do. And that's not just me talking, most football experts will admit as much about the first three, and i'm pretty sure Paul knows his way around the business end of it.
Vinny,
ReplyDeleteLike it or not Mike did a lousy job as GM and that was why he was canned. I don't know how you can say otherwise. I know you really like Holmgren, I do too, and stood up for him when the idiots (FH BWIL) were calling for his head. But that does not mean blind loyalty. He has made more than his fair share of mistakes here, both as GM and as head coach. The players he brought in as GM, most of them flopped badly. You have to be a little honest when evaluating a coach Vinny, no matter how much you like the guy.
There is a reason the media has him on the hot seat for the last two years, it's because he's underachieved badly both first as a GM then as a head coach only in Seattle. Of that there really can be no argument.
One more thing, why isn't he already here if he's so good? Huh?!? That just don't make no sense Vinny. Who knows why he's not here yet, or if he ever will be, but it certainly has nothing to do with his abilities. He was a GM of the year because he was a darn good GM plain and simple. Maybe the FO, (which you aren't worried about) is so darn screwed up they can't get anything done. Also, there have been plenty of statements made and already discussed here and at the PI about Alexander Okeafor and others hinting that they are losing confidence in the FO ability to get anything done. It has been talked about ad nauseum on talk radio and other media sources as well. You may have a great deal of faith in Holmgren but I am at the point where he needs to start doing something, anything, anything at all, to earn my faith. So far he has not. We have not had especially good drafts since he came on board, nor have we been especially good in free agency. Niether have we won on the field. So what has Holmgren done which gives you so much faith? Because he won in Green Bay? So what? That's Green Bay, this is Seattle. New city, different team and now it's time for results, ANY results other than mediocrity.
ReplyDeleteMan, what are you guys smoking?
ReplyDeleteBottom line: Homlgren and the new GM have to work well together, and be real teammates.
Holmgren has a right to be concerned about what players to hire, because they have to fit into his system, and the players are actually the main ingredient in a winning football team, which is what he wants more than anything else.
It's the GM's job to find as the best talent affordable to fit into the coaches' system. He needs to adjust his priorities to meet the coaches' perception of the talent needs.
Why? It starts with the coaches' game planning philosophy. Players are acquired whose talents will best execute the plan. If the GM recruits players according to a philosophy different from that of the coach, the execution of the plans will suffer. Therefore, it is ablsolutely imperative that the coach and GM be on the same page and not in a power struggle.
Sure, there will be times when the GM will have to say, "Mike, we can't afford that player", but generally speaking, the better they work together, the better the team will be. The professional dynamics should be completely devoid of power struggle, unlike the Whitsitt/Holmgren fued of the past, and this is why they should take the time to interview the prospects and consider Holmgren's opinion on the matter. Not that Holmie should have power over the new GM, but they need to work effectively together.
Bluefoot, I never said otherwise. I agree 100% with what you just said, the GM and Coach MUST work together. Perhaps I am not making myself very clear. I just get the feeling that the FO problems may have mostly been the fault of Whitsitt, but I find it hard to believe that he alone is culpable.
ReplyDeleteThis is the main point I am trying to drive home.
ReplyDelete"They are in the worst situation of any team in the league, with that many free agents and their front-office situation," said Sean Salisbury, a former Seahawk and current ESPN analyst. "It's called chaos. And that's what's going on in Seattle."
"I couldn't see too many other places putting themselves in this predicament," said Randy Cross, an analyst for CBS. "I imagine it doesn't exactly expedite the process. For the Seahawks, it's safe to say the better part of the foundation of their franchise is sitting there on hold."
These quotes were taken from the Times in an article regarding the mess the FO is in and the players belief that the mess may lead to not getting done what needs to get done. PLEASE don't even try to tell me that Holmgren doesn't bear any responsibility for this mess, I'm not buying it. You said yourself Bluefoot that the GM and head coach need to work together, that takes BOTH parties doing what's best for the team. It can't be that just one person was the problem, it takes TWO baby.
anonymous(alba?) You really should read before you speak......
ReplyDelete#1 I've already pointed out that your' Okeafor statment is WRONG, and Alexander's statemnets were made perhaps because he could read the writing on the wall. Do I need to read it to you?
#2 "Nor have we won on the field"
Seems to me that we put one more mark in the win column this season over last and we had more drops and a far more depleted D than the year before, so we ARE improving. Not to mention the fact that his pet peve last season were the penalties, and this season the Hawks were #2 in least amount of penalties in the NFL.
You're evaluation is flawed at best. And you can put all the faith you want in the opinions of the so-called experts out there but I think I'll stick with waiting to see what happens. Mike and Ray are excellent Coaches and will find a way to get the guys together to make this team succeed.
#3 On Mike and the drafts and FA, seems to me he did a pretty good job considering he had poor draft positions, and therefore had to go after the best player available.
And on the FA pickups, seems to me that he did a great job considering the fact that he had literally no cap money thanks to Erickson and Whit. So the fact that we have a team with this much talent is pretty telling as far as the ability that he has to build a team.(see what he did in G.B.)
monkey, it's now been two years since Holmgren lost his GM job and it seems to me that we are in the mess we're in because Whitt took over the GM spot not because of what Mike did three years ago. Whit kept Mike out of the personnel decisions, see things like the signing of Jackson last season, in spite of Mike's arguments and the bonus that was given to Wistrom, again solely Whit's doing.
ReplyDeleteThat's the same kind of thing I said about the M's last year Vinny, I hope you're right, but your koolaid drinking faith in Holmegren and crew is just not enough for me.
ReplyDeleteOne more win in a crappy division doesn't exactly show me much expecially considering the expectations.
Vinny,
ReplyDeleteI have never in my life seen someone try harder to spin evidence than you do. You have discounted each and every point made, not by appealing to facts, but by stating your hopes and opinions. You said you proved the Okeafor statement wrong, HUH?!? You haven't PROVEN anything, you said you thought that MAYBE the Alexander quote (which was brutally obvious) meant something else, or at least YOU thought it did. You go on to rip the quotes I pulled from experts by simply calling them "so called" and dismissing them out of hand without even acknowledging their comments. What makes you more of an authority than those two guys who are much closer to the situation than you are and know a helluva lot more about football than you ever will?
You use our draft position to cover Mike's ass for his lousy drafts? C'mon Vinny, don't even go there. We picked where we picked, that's no excuse and several teams behind us did better in several of those drafts. You find every excuse imaginable for Holmgren, but they are excuses every team in the NFL could use.
And then you come back with "hey we improved by one game, which was pretty good considering all our injuries" etc... Are you kidding me? ONE LOUSY GAME? Give it up Vinny, when you start trashing every expert, spinning every quote, and spouting stupid excuses which every other team could use, you need to give up your Holmgren worship, it's not healthy.
Whew! It's getting hot in here!
ReplyDeleteMonkey (6:34), I guess I'd have to agree. It appears Holmgren has am appetite to have things his way. I'm sure he is a little guilty of me-ism as well.
I would just like to see the line drawn there. When the coach asks for a certain player or type of player, the GM should get it, unless it unaffordable. In that case he needs to have the cajones to tell the coach no, and it should be respected. All this stuff about the scouting system/staff appears to be a turf war, and has no place in an upper-echelon team.
I wonder how the Pats do it. Clearly Bellichick has some serious influence in how things go. But Kraft and the FO all seem to be very much team oriented, and on the same page. I'm just hoping that we can get the same kind of atmoshpere over here.
Man, I'm tired of typin' this but here ya' go monkey(again!)
ReplyDeleteSeattle Times Feb. 10th
Headline: Chike wants to stay
Chike Okeafor's agent says the defensive end wants to stay with the Seahawks but is prepared to enter free agency.
Okeafor is among 16 Seahawks scheduled to hit the open market on March 2. His agent, Andrew Simms, met with team officials in Seattle 'LAST WEEK'.
Asked if Okeafor wanted to stay in Seattle, Simms said,"Absolutly, no question about it. But if it doesn't happen before March 2, then he'll test the open market."
The Seahawks are without a team president, but Simms doesn't think that will have a huge effect on negotiations.
"The guys that are there are very competent," he sai. "Of course, they are in transition. But as far as our communication with them, it's been pretty consistant. I don't feel like it will inhibit our ability to negotiate with them."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, am I misinterpriting these statements or are you wrong in your' statements about Okeafor? Which is it?! (I'm not trying to be an a**, just putting things the way you seem to prefere them.)
And seems to me the only 'experts' I'm disputing are you, Mr. A, and the boobs at ESPN and other so-called experts.
So I think I'll stick with my opinions and we'll all see how it turns out.
I'm not trying to shoot anyone down, I'm just stating my opinions. I thought that was the point of this site, to put some points of view out there for people to ponder.
You seem to think it's alright to voice your' negative opinions, but when I put out an opinion you don't agree with,or that contradicts your' take, you attack me. How fair is that?
Again, I'm not trying to be an a**, just asking a valid question. If nothing else at least answer my question on the Okeafor statement. Was I wrong on my take on the article?
On Chike:
ReplyDeleteI thought I might have been mistaken in my view, apparently I wasn't. Since more than one person had the same opinion I did, I figure that an article we all read led us to the conclusions we had. It's not to say that you interpreted what was said in teh Times incorrectly Vinny, I don't think there's any other way to interpret it. What I'm wondering is if Chike isn't putting on the same public face that you think Alexander is. Just a thought.
On Mike V Randy:
Randy has actually been offered many jobs, most recently the Cleveland position, and interviewed for many others, the San Fran position being the most recent. It's general knowledge that he could have just about any GM position he'd like, much like Pioli or possibly Savage.
I don't know for sure how bad of a GM Mike was. I do know that handling both jobs was too much for him. It's not a coincidence that the last couple of seasons have been more successful than the seasons before. Mike is human, and as such has limits. His limits were reached and exceeded when he was worrying about contracts, drafts, free agents, and the coaching game plans. He might have been a great GM, if that's all he was, but he is an outstanding coach, and should focus primarily on that.
Of course they have to work together. And I think they will. But I think that someone (this would be the team presidents role if we had one, Paul Allen's since we don't) needs to sit with Mike and explain to him that he isn't the GM anymore, and that whoever they bring in needs to be more than a figure head. The person they hire needs to be able to bring in his staff, just as a new head coach would be able to bring in his own staff. This includes scouts and personnel people.
Ya, Randy Cross, what a boob. How in the world does he think that playing in the NFL for many years at a pro bowl level qualifies him to speak to anything? I mean really, so what if he was an outstanding O lineman on outstanding teams. Who cares that he played on Niner teams that won superbowls? Who cares that he was thought of as one of, if not the best O lineman of his era, or that he has spent nearly his entire life associated in some way with football. How does any of that make him an expert? What a boob!
ReplyDeleteAll I'm saying is that the FO thing has nothing to do with signing anyone, it's the Coaches and Reignwhatever that will make those decisions, anyone we get as Prez will have little say this season on personel.
ReplyDeleteI'm willing to bet you that all this stressing and hooplah will seem pretty dumb after they get the signings done.
And not much happens in the NFL, as far as FAs are concerned, until after the Pro Bowl. Isn't that correct?
I'm willing to bet they've already got their lists and plans ready, all they need is for the ProBowl to get overwith.
But hey, what do I know!
I'd take that bet Vinny, but I would hate to bet against the Seahawks. Not because I'm afraid I'll lose, but because I don't want to be right. The Hawks are bungling this thing badly, we've got non football guys in charge of hiring a president and we've got 16 free agents who are all waiting to figure out what their status is, and the clock is ticking. NOT GOOD!
ReplyDeleteOne bad offseason can set a team back for years, and this has all the earmarkings of a very bad offseason.
The FO does sign people, just not players. For instance, the FO is going to have a big say in whether Bob Ferguson remains with the team. They also hire the cap experts, the scouting department, trainers, etc. That's the biggest thing that worries me, is that Holmgren is getting into front office affairs. I don't want him spread thin.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, the free agency market usually doesn't see much action until after February, mostly because if a team feels they want to keep a player, they try to get it done during the season, and they aren't allowed to talk to other team's players until March.
See monkey Paulie gets it. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd another thing, what makes you think that Mike Ray and Reinfeld haven't already talked to the FAs and decided what they're going to do? We've already established that they've been talking to Okeafor for weeks and I'm sure that's true for the rest of the guys they want to keep, where are you getting you're info from? The rumor mills?
The Hawk diss-ers at ESPN?
You keep saying that the FO is botching this thing but you've shown no proof. Just because they haven't hired a Prez and Scouting Head doensn't mean they're just sitting around waiting for these guys to get hired, that's the dumbest hypothesis I've ever heard!
I need to alter my stance a little bit, Paulie yes the FO HIRES the other heads guys and such, but that is NOT what I said. I said they have notheing to do with the SIGNINGS, they don't sign players the coaches do, in the case of the Hawks, Mike, Ray and Reinfeld are going to be making those decisions this season because they know whats what on the team. They know who they want and who they don't, they also know who they want in the Draft, so to freak out about the FO is a waste of time and emotion if ya ask me.
ReplyDeleteI guess it depends on a few things. For instance, if we keep our current GM, because he is directly responsible for signing Free Agents. Of course the Coach helps decide who to sign, but the GM works out the deals (or doesn't, which might be more the case this off season). So as far as Free agents, if we keep our current GM, and keep Mike R in place for the signings, we could be ok. But the GM is one of our big questions, and that won't be answered until we have a president in place.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing to worry about is the draft. This is something the Front office has direct control over. The coach does have the majority of the final say, but all his information comes from the scouting department that the front office hires. This is the big concern between Holm and Mueller. They both want their own guys.
I don't think the Front office is just hanging out, I don't think they're slacking off, but I was truly hoping for an announcement this week. We have one week to name our Franchise player, and 2 1/2 weeks to figure out which free agents we're keeping/letting test the waters. As far as the open positions, the Pioli offer is encouraging, even if the results were not. But as far as the Players are concerned, the silence is deafening.
Paulie, I have one question, who else is signing players right now?
ReplyDeleteWhat big signings have occured?
My point is that we aren't behind in the signings. And also, why can't Mike function as GM until they find one? He wasn't a bad GM,
just an over worked one. And as far as the draft, what makes you think we don't already have a draft list made up.
That's the thing Vin, we are behind in signings. No other clubs have 16 free agents, with 9 starters, and three of their biggest offensive players making up a major part of that list.
ReplyDeletePoint taken P, guess all I'm saying is that why does everyone act like the FO guys aren't or can't be taking care of this stuff as we speak? As I've pointed out, they(the Coaches) probably already know who they want to keep, and who they want to cut loose.
ReplyDeleteSince they haven't retained any FA's then, are you saying that the FO doesn't want to keep any fo them?
ReplyDeleteThe FO I'm sure is working hard at this. They're just failing.
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