Let me take you back to the 2001 NFL Draft. For the 8th pick overall, the Bears picked WR David Terrell. This was followed by the Seahawks taking Koren Robinson 9th.
Today, after four disappointing seasons, Terrell was cut by the Bears after signing Mushin Muhammed.
What does this mean? Take a look at the following career breakdowns, especially last season. Koren's career numbers are better, but this past season, looking at the per game averages (granted, Koren took himself off the team for almost half the season) it seems he would be a candidate for dismissal, too.
Bottom line: Shape up or ship out, Koren.
He is due to meet this week with Holmgren and Ruskell, to see IF, after his 30 day course in alchohol dependency, he has a future with the Seahawks.
If anything, maybe we should go after Terrell. He is at least an above AVERAGE WR, and he might catch the **** ball.
David Terrell Career Stats
Koren Robinson Career Stats
Blue, I have to wonder if the rumors of K-Rob's mental health issues are true. I heard late last season that he may be suffering from the same condidtion I've been diagnosed with, if this is true then perhaps he's salvagable.
ReplyDeleteActually I'm more worried about Jackson, it still seems to me that he's still not over that hit he took season before last.
Perhaps it has something to do with concentration, as I've pointed out in previous posts.
I guess maybe we should consider the idea of drafting a top WR to put pressure on the starters. There are several players in the draft that could fill a possession receiver position. A set of good hands and the ability to run routes that's all that's required to make this offense work.
I'll be blunt...I absolutely hate the idea of having Terrell...
ReplyDeletethe main reason he was released is because he was a problem child...to be honest, I think Koren Robinson is a better receiver then him overall...
I rate everyone in my head on a scale of 1-100, and D Jack is an 87, KRob is a 81, and Terrell is a good 72...I realize Engram is a great Slot Receiver, but I think he is easily better then Terrell as well...I just don't think hes an upgrade at all...
knowing him, he won't come cheap...id rather overpay Plaxico or Mason...
Vinny,
ReplyDeleteSeperating football from personal problems, I certainly think Koren is salvagable and valuable as a person. I just think he is a complete liability as a WR.
If he doesn't get himself straightened out, he's going to have to get a job like the rest of us.
About Jackson-- the dude is setting team records. I'd keep him. He has some off games, but so do a lot of players. They just pale in comaprison to Koren's.
The reason I linked the stats, is because Terrell averaged about 4 catches per game last season, while Koren averaged three. Terrell averaged 43 yards per game, while Koren had 49-- not a big difference.
But Terrell at least played every game, which is more than K-rob.
Terrell is unemployed because of his performance. Why do we still have Koren?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping someone through personal problems. But I do mean HELP. I don't mean serving as an enabler.
ADP:
ReplyDeleteNumbers in your head, you must play Madden. :) It makes me want to look at next season's Madden teams to see how close you are!
ha, actually I prefer ESPN...I don't let Madden in my house...always hated the gameplay, andplus the ratings are always biased
ReplyDeletebut yeh...I always fix the ratings of the players based on their last 2 year performances...
congratulations on finding me out :P
I was going to just take a pass on your response but, well, you know me.. LOL
ReplyDeleteFirst, on Jackson, while yes he's got great numbers, he's like Alexander, not getting the catches/yards when we need them most. When it comes to winning the players 'HAVE TO' get the ones that matter. And Jackson dropped the important ones.
Second, It's my understanding that Terrell was released for poor performance, well what makes that a selling point?
Third, Robinson has missed 6 games in his career, Terrell missed 11, so on those merits, it sounds to me like Robinson's the better bet, and if he get's it back together it seems to me that he's the better WR.
Lastly, you said >>> "Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping someone through personal problems. But I do mean HELP, I don't mean serving as an enabler."
Do you really think that Mike's the enabler type, I'm sure that he see's something worth saving, after all he's not shy about releasing guys..Ask Ahman Green, Jon Kitna and Joey Galloway, to anme a few.
Koren hasn't shown anyone he's got it together yet. His performance on the field has been declining since his sophmore season.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing my point. The direction Koren is headed is out of football. The point of comparing stats is to show that a similarly performing player is not qualified to be on his former team. Koren is completely and absolutely on a bubble. If he keeps declining, no team will want him.
Also, I wasn't saying MH is an enabler. It was a general statement about my personal values-- I'm just saying a person with personal problems should receive help. It's just that it does not necessarily mean that keeping them in their high dollar job is going to help them. It may be contributing to their problem.
Understand, when I say 'help', I mean help them to conquer their personal problem, not to give them yet another break. I think problems as severe as Koren's are bigger than football, and solving them should come first. What he does with his professional life is secondary. What good is a temporary football career if you are never happy and ruin your life in the process?
The last time we really needed Darryl Jackson, (the playoff game against STL), he gave us 12 receptions for 128 yards and 1 TD.
ReplyDeleteI looks to me like he's over that hit. Why you are more worried about him than Koren just baffles me.
Vinny, that may be the most unproveable thing you have ever said. Alexander and Jackson don't get yards when they count? What? Every yard counts Vinny, and I don't see how you can say that those two are any less clutch than anyone else on our team. I certainly hope you're not saying that Robinson DOES get yards when they count, cuz he's never done anything at all when it counted.
ReplyDeleteYour opinion on Alexander (and apparently Jackson) is just that, opinion, but it is certainly not backed up by any facts whatsoever. I just don't get how you can defend Robinson then turn around and rip Jackson, who is in every way possible a better reciever than the grip and rip Alexander, who is the best offensive skill position player on this team.
Dude, I understand emphathizing with a guy who was diagnosed like you but it has completely clouded your judgment.
As far as the topic is concerned Bluefoot, I think I'd rather have maggotts crawl out my sphincter than watch Terrel underachieve here in Seattle. Robinson is at least as good and is probably a better reciever than Terrel, although at least David catches the ball. Neither of them are worth a spit, Robinson should have been cut two years ago when the pattern of dropped balls underachieving and drug problems first showed up.
I'm worried about them 'both' it seems top me you're the one that's keying in on one player.
ReplyDeleteAll I'm saying is that with the right treatment, Robinson can be normal, and his performance hasn't declined any more than Jackson's, did it ever occur to you that Robinson's numbers dropped because teams are keying on him and therefore leaving Jackson in single man coverage?
I just don't want Matt to have to break in another WR at a time when we need the play of the passing game to be fluid and perfectly timed, and to throw in another WR (as with Rice) does nothing to help our passing game.
Am I wrong in this analysis?
Geez Vinny, the more I think about it, the only two guys on the whole stinkin team who have ever done anything when it really counted are Jackson and ALexander. What you just said goes beyond anything I have ever heard. Didn't Jackson have an awesome game when his dad died? How is that not clutch? All season long I complained that they didn't run the ball enough, because the passing game stunk and Alexander was the only one getting anything done out there at all for weeks. Vinny, you really need to go back and watch some tape, Alexander CARRIED the team through most of the season, if it weren't for him we would have been lucky to win 5 games. Your hatred of Alexander just has no basis whatsoever in reality, you invent things to critisize him for while defending the single biggest underachieving loser on this team please do us all a favor and stop. It makes no damn sense.
ReplyDeleteADP, you're in trouble with you're gaming, I, like you prefere ESPN, however it was anounced that EA Sports has bought the sole rights to all official NFL Player's names, Team Names, and Stadiums.
ReplyDeleteSorry, better get used to the idea of Madden for the next five years.
Vinny,
ReplyDeleteYes.
BTW: you said, "I'm more worried about Jackson", right up at the top. That's what baffles me.
Monkey,
I think I'd buy tickets to the maggot show, too. |-P
Yes Vinny, you are very wrong in your analysis. I can't remember ever seeing Robinson get double coverage. No one bothers with him because HE CAN'T CATCH THE BALL! Why would any team bother double covering someone who can't catch?
ReplyDeleteGeez, look at the body of his career, his first year everyone started saying that he looks like a bust, his second year he was better, in fact he had exactly one good year in his entire career, last year he missed games because he broke rule after rule, disappointed every one of his teammates and completely let them down when it counted the most. He has had two years in a row of horrible drops, and has shown no signs at all of coming out of it. Face it Vinny, the guy will never amount to anything in the NFL, stick a fork in him he's done.
Double teamed? You've got to be kidding. Jackson draws far more double teams than the grip far more.
Really, you need to stop letting personal feelings get in the way of honesty about players. You got angry with Alexander because he missed some blocks and fumbled a couple of times, then form there you started finding ways to rip him. K Rob gets diagnosed with a disease like yours and so you feel the need to defend his actions. He's not you Vinny, you don't need to invent excuses for the punk. He's got no more mental health issues if he would lay off the wacky weed. That's not mental health problem, it's self control, bad behavior, lack of giving a crap. That's also illegal unethical and completely stupid.
Vinny, I should qualify what I said. He either needs to shape up or ship out. When he meets this week with MH and TR he needs to show that he's sucessfully overcoming his personal problems.
ReplyDeleteI really hope that he is, and I really hope that he can perform well enough to stay. I haven't written him off as a person and as a player. But he's clearly got to do something better.
Jackson's totals for the first four seasons....
ReplyDelete61 games, 263 catches, 3808 yds, 14.7 yd avg, 27 TDs '04 avg 13.8
Robinson's first four seasons....
57 games, 213 catches, 3167 yds, 14.9 yd avg, 12 TDs '04 avg 16yds
Got any charts or graphs?
ReplyDeleteyeh I knew about the EA Sports crap the day it happened...but im still sticking with ESPN, regardless if the #1 thing I hate about sports games are outdated rosters...ill just keep changing them when needed for the next 5 years...and yes, im serious
ReplyDeleteas for Terrell...once again, no...
outside of the 'terrell sucks' statements, the other most valid statement was 'Alexander carried this team alot'...I agree completely with both
Alexander and Boulware were the reason for us winning most of the games that we did...D Jack, IMO is one of the better receivers in the league, regardless of drops...his stats in 2004 were just like Torry Holt's---who is widely considered as a top 5 WR (although I barely rank him in the top 10)...the TDs column may have a gap...but D Jack and the offense didn't quite get in the red zone as much as we thought he would
by no means am I saying D Jack is better then Holt, but they are quite alike, therefore anyone who would defend Holt, shouldnt dislike Jackson (although the drops have a gap...thats not the most important stat for a WR, another words, if K Rob had twice as many drops as everyone else and still managed 1200 Rec. Yards, would he not still be a good WR?)
drops shouldn't be magnified if the WR did his job in other categories, D Jack got plenty of yards, played injured, and was double teamed because noone took the other WRs seriously (plus we had backups most of the time)...now with K Rob, he didn't fulfill his part in the other categories, so his drops are a valid reason to dislike him
I don't get why D Jack is even in this conversation of 'receiver upgrades'
BTW, I'd like to point out that D-Jack's stats have been IMPROVING over the course of his career- his first season he had 44 YPG, and has steadily increased it each year until last when he had almost 75.
ReplyDeleteKoren, on the other hand, had a spike in performance his 2nd year with 77 YPG, but it has since gone to 59 and last year at 49.
Koren IS declining, when he should be maturing, and D-Jack continues to work hard and grow as a player. At least give him credit for thaT.
Wow! I'm sorry I'm so hostile today Vinny, I guess I'm having a bad day.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get the personal animosity towards the guy who absolutely carried this team through most of the season last year. I distinctly remember when the season started and everyone was asking what was wrong with Hasselbeck, (aside from the drops of course). Hass started out terrible last year and didn't really come on until December. Robinson had his worst season yet as a pro, and was a virtual non factor in all of their games. Jackson looked good in spurts but also once again struggled with drops. The only reliable guy on the whole damn team was Alexander. Sure at the end of the season he coughed up two fumbles that really hurt. (Funny, but they were at the end of BIG runs where he damn near single handedly won the game for us) and he missed a couple of key blocks, it's true. But if that's the worst that can be said about his performance last year, which was the best in the entire NFL, then I just don't get the animosity. I clearly remember when through the first part of the season we were having discussions about how the look of the team had changed into a smash mouth team because our passing game was so lousy, we had to rely on Alexander to get anything done at all. I personally was on the P-I blogs shouting about how they needed to run more often because the passing game wasn't working but the running game was. Alexander was our MVP last year no if's and's or but's, he was by far and away our most reliable, consistent player, and was the only reason we even made the playoffs, as lousy as our passing game was for the first part of the year. How quickly we all forget. I don't want to hear any more about selfiness or lack of blocking or bad hands (who didn't have bed hands last year?) Alexander was the only reason we even had a chance, and was by far the biggest reason we made a playoff appearance. In my opinion, had they run him more often like I wanted them to, instead of the stupid playcalling from Holmgren all year long trying to force the damn pass when it clearly wasn't working, we would have made it further into the playoffs.
I've heard Alexander criticised for the fact that on several short yardage situations we chose to use Strong, instead of Alexander or Hasselbeck instead. I heard some people say that this showed a lack of confidence in ALexanders ability to get the job done, HORSE SH*T! That was nothing other than horrible play calling. That was nothing other than the fact that Alexander was on the sideline sucking air because he was the only reason we'd gotten that close on the first damn place. Lack of confidence in the leagues leading scorer? What? C'mon!
I am sorry to keep ranting about this, but it seems to me that some people have conveniently forgotten how last season actually went. They seem to have fogotten that the only part of our offense that worked consistently at all was the run game, and even then we didn't run NEARLY enough.
adp and Blue, did it ever occur to either of you that a lot of Jackson's success comes from the fact that he's left man to man because of Robinson and Engram, not to mention Rice last season, don't get me wrong i think Jackson's got great skills, but the fact remains that he drops too many balls when it really counts, the third down balls and the game savers, I'm not sure where or how we forgot the fact that he and Robinson have been knocked for two years now for their inconsistant receiving.
ReplyDeleteBlue weren't you one of the critics, perhaps I should go back and check that.
Anyway, I'm not calling for anyone to get the axe, I'm saying that both these receivers need to focus on the game.
Jackson is no different than Alexander, great numbers but the performances don't come when we need them, even in the StL playoff game.
Yes D.J. had a TD and over 100 yds, but we needed at least another TD. Not to mention 12 receptions was awesome, too bad he waited till the end of the season to catch that many, he had 10 in week 13 and that was the only other double digit game of the season. And that was against Minnesotta's lousy pass defense.
I'd just like him to be more consistant.
Damn it, I double posted a huge post, how do I get rid of it?
ReplyDeleteI just don't get how some of you can forget that Jackson was one of the droppers. And Alexander didn't carry sh*t, if he carried us we'd have won more games, the games we lost were due to failed third down conversions, it was Alexander not picking up the third and short & the WRs dropping the ball on third down, it was all about failed third down attempts.
ReplyDeleteIf Alexander was carrying the team he'd have been able to pick up the third and shorts, and for your' info, I don't hate Alexander, I just am not a sheep following a guy with a bunch of huge stats that can't get the tough yards. He's not a physical Back and therefore not a HB I have any use for, I don't respect the guy and the way he plays and the way he presents himself on the field. Where's the fire, the passion?
I'd rather evaluate a guy by 'all' his qualities and not just his numbers, the numbers doin't mean everything, just ask Martin and Manning.
And the remark on Robinson and my condition is odd consisdering you have no idea what you're talking about. MJ is a way of self medicating. I was doing the same for quite some time before I realized what my problem was. Self control is something a person with bipolar disorder doesn't have. So yes I do sympathise with Robinson, but if he doesn't fix the problem I agree he has to go.
By the way did I mention that I'm going through manic phase as we speak? (big surprise huh)
ReplyDeleteWell, I've come down now and I'll just say that I give up, you all are right, Alexander's the best back we can get, and therefore you all can relax because obviously if we can't get it done without him the Coaches and FO will never let him go.
ReplyDeleteDidn't get it done on third downs? Vinny, go back and watch tapes of the games. THe problem was with the playcalling, he almost never got the damn ball on third downs! They almost always threw instead, only to have K Rob or Jackson drop the damn ball. You are just proving my point Vinny! Had they used Alexander the way they should have more often, we would have converted on those third downs. I can only remember three third down situations where they ran the ball all season and he didn't convert, and all three of those were because the shitty right side of the line didn't bloody block. Vinny you are just plain wrong and I have proven it over and over again. The stats say you're wrong, what actually happened during the games say you're wrong. Face it Vinny, you're just plain wrong, and you have run out of ways to blame Alexander without resorting to pure conjecture and opinion. You cannot prove one thing, yet I can because the game film and the stats are all on my side, ALL on my side. He was the NFL's best running back last year and it's absolutely unnarguable. Numbers don't lie Vinny, you don't have to like them, but they don't lie, but opinions are just that, opinions. Numbers are facts, you have opinions. Game set match, winner monkey.
ReplyDeletenumbers may be facts but as I said before numbers don't mean Rings.
ReplyDeleteAsk Manning and Martin, Re-match, game set match Vinny.
It's all about spin man.
Rings are won by teams not by individuals, just ask Ladanian Tomlinson, You can't fault Alexander for not getting us to a superbowl Vinny, it's a team game. That's like saying Tomlinson sucks because the Chargers didn't go all the way.
ReplyDeleteGood point, guess we'll have to wait and see how he does next season. (wherever he winds up)
ReplyDeleteI give up, I guess Alexander's the best HB out there.
I didn't say that he's the best out there, just that he had the best season last year. Actually I mentioned the guy who I think is the best pure running back out there, Ladanian Tomlinson. I would trade Alex and a number one pick for Tomlinson quicker than you can say Jack Sprat, He's awesome.
ReplyDeleteJACK SPRAT!
ReplyDeleteLOL!
Huh!?? :)
ReplyDeleteIsn't Lilly Thomlin a little old for the NFL?
Huh?
OH!
Never Mind...... :)