Since everyone is doing so well reserving comment until all the facts are in, I thought I'd create this topic and blow to hell all that stellar behavior!We've all heard the cliche "Better to turn and walk away, and live to fight another day", and I'm sure all wish Ken Hamlin had the sense to shut it down, walk away, and be in the starting lineup for the rest of the season.
However, I seem to remember that we all were also surprised when none of the old Seahawks attempted to take off T.O.'s head after the Sharpie incident, and let's face it, Ken Hamlin is one of our favorite Seahawks for his aggressive nature and viscious hits on the field.
I'm sure we all wish our star players wouldn't be spilling out onto the street at closing time of a local club, but we also have to realize that these are macho guys in their mid-20s with huge amounts of disposable income, so we can't expect them to be staying home watching cable every night.
I was in my mid-20s once, and I gotta tell you, if I had that kind of scratch, there's no way I would be sitting where I am right now. I'd be in rehab, in jail or dead.
The point is that every day, life presents us with an endless series of options and choices, and our lives continue to unfold as we chose and react to each given set of circumstances. Sometimes, you don't even realize you're making a choice, like boarding a flight where the pilot is 3-sheets to the wind, or where 6 of the passengers are packing box cutters.
Not knowing all the facts, we do know this. Ken Hamlin was in a situation that went seriously wrong, based on some choices he made, and some that were made for him. Does this make him a bad guy, or an unlucky bastard?
I'm not sure we'll ever know the full story, but I'm sure we all have our own opinions!
Fact: Ken Hamlin is hurt bad. I am sorry about that and hope he makes a speedy recovery.
ReplyDeleteFact: Ken Hamlin was in a nightclub in Pioneer Square late. I reserve judgement on this, I go to bars, and have been to Pioneer Square late. When I was 22 or 23. And I have witnessed fights there (in the 90's).
Reported: Ken Hamlin tried to leave the club, touched a guy, said excuse me, and the guy got lippy. Ken got lippy back and punched him. Was Ken leaving like a VIP, taking a shortcut? Should the club have a special line for VIPs? I would assume the club likes VIPs and caters to them with a special room, or special tables, therefore should continue the VIP treatment to the car. I have never been to Larry's, don't know what it is like. I know the Fenix had a VIP area and I believe they had valet parking. I don't know the Fenix is still there though.
Probable Fact: Ken Hamlin was not noticably intoxicated. Thats nice, in light of his previous indescretions with alchohol.
Reported: Ken Hamlin would not quit trying to fight with the guy. This is a problem if it is the case. However, was the guy talking trash? The club owner seems to think no, but I doubt that. The guy already had got lippy with Ken, had been punched by Ken, and was still around Ken after "about 10 or 15 minutes". If the guy continued talking, I can see why a guy would continue talking back. I would. Right or wrong, I would. Should Ken "know better"? I suppose, but so should I. He was probably still amped up from the game, and is already a bit "testosteroney".
Reported: One of the "assailants" was found dead. I don't know what to make of this, I think its apparent that Ken Hamlin himself didn't do it... the guy was apparently a pretty bad dude, so perhaps something from the past caught up to him.
Overall I don't think any judgement can be made yet. But I do think Hamlin has the right to go out. And I think that he was assaulted in a manner that was more than equal to his initial assault if his girlfriend is telling the truth. And its a shame that people are like this. Hitting an unarmed person with a weapon defines chickenshit thug, as does more than one person beating a guy.
Posted by JoSCh
For what it's worth, Larry's is basically a place known for cheap, stiff drinks. The fact that the owner has video cameras and disperses cowds with pepper spray tells you about the clientel--it sees fights every weekend. As a local who has become disgusted with what Pioneer Square has become, I question the owners motives in so quickly speaking out against Hamlin. Not to say Hamlin shouldn't have know to walk away.
ReplyDeletePosted by bokonon
I actually think this is a very good topic to discuss, but I'd like to wait a couple of days for when we have a more complete picture of what happened.
ReplyDeleteThere are certainly many sides to this, and there will be many stances taken.
Was Hamlin justified? Or is he an asshole? Did he deserve what he got? Or does nobody derserve that, regardless of what they did? Are we upset about losing a potential pro bowler? Are we upset that someone we deemed as such an animal got beat up?
Lots to discuss, but I'd like a few more facts first.
Posted by check
Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument!!!
ReplyDeletePosted by alba
Okay. Here's my first reaction:
ReplyDeleteI don't really care if he was in the right, or, as it seems to be, in the wrong. Sometimes I feel bad that these athletes in the spotlight are always held to a differen standard outside their "on air" lives.
People get thier ass kicked all the time. I don't like seeing anybody in the Hospital in that kind of condition, regardless of who they are or how it happened.
I wish the best for the Hammer, he is a stud player on my favorite team, but I would wish the best for anybody I work with, any of my family, hell, any of you guys, or even a stranger if they were in the same situation. I don't like to let the fame of a person blind me into a false sense of woe.
Okay, there's one thing I feel, though there are others, but this one relies very little on necessary fact.
Posted by check
As I said earlier, I question the bar owner's motive for releasing the video and calling Hamlin the aggressor. The guy's bar has more beating and deaths associated with than it should. Two military people were beaten down by his patrons just a month ago.
ReplyDeleteDespite his first person account of the incident, and claims he tried restraining Hamlin for 10-15 minutes, today on Sports Radio he admitted he wasn't even at the bar when the event occured. In other words, his security people...who may not have been doing their job properly...told him what happend. He ape'd like a monkey.
Posted by bokonon
I've become such a cynic that there are only two reasons for people to come forward and cooperate in something like this, FAME and MONEY.
ReplyDeleteHe's obviously a media whore (and not in a good way, like being a feedback whore) and is either trying to increase his revenue with this exposure, or decrease his liability in the eventual and unavoidable law suits.
Posted by alba
I am going to pose a question. Call me all the names you want afterwards, but try to at least think about what I am saying. If the Hammer hadn't been put in the ICU, he would still be missing some football due to a fratured hand he received as a result of throwing a punch. What would you guys be saying then?
ReplyDeleteI think the chances are slim he comes back this season due to head head injuries, but with a broken hand he would probably still miss some time. Is it worth it?
Posted by Mike K
Good question. Obviously if all he came out of this with was a broken hand, we'd all be a little more pissed at him. However, if it were just a minor altercation, there also wouldn't be too much need to get ALL the details before passing judgement. Since the injuries are so severe, there are probably a bunch of extenuating circumstances that will come out, that will either make us have more sympathy, or less respect for Kenny, depending upon what they are.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, if his aggressive need to get free from the bouncers were because his girlfriend or someone else was being hassled, his actions make sense, and we'll have more sympathy.
However, if this turns out to be something seemy, like a drug deal gone bad, we'll lose a lot of respect for him.
That's why, the best reaction at this point is no reaction, until all the facts are known.
Posted by alba
I think I see what your gettin' at Mike, and that is a valid question. Does it play on everones emotions a little more that he's in the ICU, well, yeah, and it should.
ReplyDeleteIf he had just simply broken his hand in a bar fight, and no further, would I be upset instead of sympathetic? Hell yeah, I'd be pissed and calling him all kinds of names.
See, the thing is, it doesn't really matter who's at fault, I'd rather nobody be in the ICU. I'd prefer a couple of black eyes, some bruises and a fat lip, but not severe condition with a brain clot. I don't really care at this point if he started or not.
Posted by check
Did he break his hand punching someone, or did it get broken when he was unconscious on the ground getting stomped on by some stupid gang banger who think's killing someone is "cool"? If you live in this area, you've seen video before of these dumb, sowardly gang-bangers stomping guys who are down and unconscious, and it sounds like this is what happened to Hamlin. One stomp on a hand is a lot more likely to break it than a punch.
ReplyDeleteBar fights are bar fights. As a rich athlete, Hamlisn should have done everythign in his power to avoid it, if for no other reason than he's a prime candidate for a lawsuit. But he didn't.
But the real problem is when a stupid, insecure punk thinks its OK to respond to a punch in the nose by trying to kill the other guy. Stomping on an unconscious guy's head - nothing but pure cowardice.
Posted by highwatermark
I agree. I am sick that he was hurt. I am also very certain that the people he had the altercation with are thugs! I guess one of them got what he deserved. It sounds like the guy that was found dead has quit a record. I guess you shouldn't bring a street sign to a gun fight!
ReplyDeleteI wish Kenny a speedy recovery, but what I really wish is that he would have never put himself in the situation he was in. What does a guy of his place in the community want with a seedy dive bar? It still baffles me. Surely he can find classier places to take his girlfriend.
Posted by Mike K.
I have known Ken for 7 years and he is a very kind, gentle,and loyal person. Ken is not flashy, boastful, nor is he abrasive.He is the kind of guy that will turn the other cheek. I had the pleasure of sharing a part of his life as a second mother while he was in college I was always and still is proud of him.
ReplyDeleteWhen I heard the news of this incident I knew the truth would eventually come out. Ken is a person that money and fame has not touched he is still the respectful, gentle lion I've always known .
I ask his fans and other on lookers to not judge him just admire him. Why is he being condemed for hanging with the regular people it seems you can't win. If he were the type of person that felt he was a star and had body guards and requested special attention by having private sections so you could look but not touch he'd be called an elitist.
So let's not hate on a person who's only crime is he wants to stay just Ken Hamlin the same guy who we all loved as a razorback at University of Arkansas.
Posted by S Gowdy