GhostofKnox's post made me thing a little bit about the current state of 12 Seahawks Street. I feel that we have done an excellent job providing information about the 'Hawks, our additions (TWM, cricklers, gameday chat, awards, etc.) have been largely successful and make the Street one of the most unique and entertaining blogs out there, not just for 'Hawks fans, but for any NFL fan.
So, what is the point of this posting? Well I feel that in the rush of expanding the possibilities of this site, that in recent months, we've lost a little bit of that which made this site so great in the first place. By that, I mean first rate discussion. Battling the pros and cons of a topic in a forum where we do not degrade each other, but display our insitefulness and intelligence. This is what the Street was born from, and I would like to make sure that this artery still flows for us, along with all of the sweet new additions that are being provided.
So, with this in mind, I'd like to pose a discussion topic, and I hope it garners some interest. I do not want to discuss Shaun Alexanders blocking, or Mike Holmgrems game plan. I don't want to discuss second half failures and team attitude. I want to talk defense.
I am wondering, of the current defense put out on the field by the 'Hawks, who is the best player. Is it the vetrans, Sharper or Wistrom. Is it one of the newbies, Tubbs, Lofa, or even Trufant? It's an interesting question, but merely a segue into what I really want to know:
Of the current defensive starters, or significant contributors, who, if any will end their career in the Seahawks Ring of Honor. Do we have another Kenny Easly in this group? Or a Dave Brown? Or is Marcus Tubbs the next Jacob Green for this team? Is there a player that we have that can rewrite the way we see our defense?
C'mon guys, take a stand, pick your favorite, but be able to defend your choice. Let's make sure that there's still a pulse in this artery on the Street.
Good point, check.
ReplyDeleteI think in our collective effort to make this blog more than "just another chat site", we've lost a little site of the core passionate argument that makes being a sports fan worth while.
I thought you were going to take the angle of who belongs in the ROH that isn't already, such as Tez, but I like your angle much better.
Let me start with one name: WALTER JONES.
Hands down, no contest end of discussion. Baring a catastrophic injury (knocking wood) or a compromising situation involving a donkey, Brenda Warner and a midget Rams fan, Big Walter will not only find himself immortalized in Qwest field, but most likely Canton as well.
Looking at guys in the mid-point of their careers, who are more likely to be with the Seahawks for the duration, I gotta say Hass, Shaun and Mack Strong have a good shot on offense, especially if they take us deep into the playoffs and/or to the big dance.
Mack's been with the Seahawks so long I think he babysat for Jack Patera! He's the embodyment of the "plugger" attitude, and the off-spotlight guy that this city seems to embrace.
Matt has slowly worked his way into the hearts and minds of Seahawks fans, and now that his receivers are actually CATCHING the ball, he can really start rewriting some record books.
And if Shaun is really serious about signing a REASONABLE long term contract, he could become a iconic player in the mold of Curtis Martin, Emmett Smith or Jerome Bettis.
One the defensive side of the ball, there's no clear option like with Big Walter, but a couple of interesting choices.
I think guys like Jamie Sharper, Bryce Fisher and Grant Wistrom will help this team in the next few years, but I don't see them having the long standing impact worthy of ROH enshrinement.
Young guys like Lofa and Tubbs have promise, as it appears that their games have nowhere to go but up, but it's so hard to know where they'll wind up once their rookie contracts expire.
So with someone less certainty, I'm going to say Hamlin and Bouleware have the best shot.
Hamlin's low profile character and ability to bring the big hit reminds everyone of ROH denizen Kenny Easley, which is always helpful when seeking to attain greatness. And Michael Bouleware is kind of a home-grown Seahawks experiment, making the switch from LB to S, and has seemed to lock up that position with malice!
SO there you have it, Alba's view on which current Seahawks have a chance to get into the ROH. Since I named half the team, here's my picks from most to least likely:
Walter Jones
Matt Hasselbeck
Shaun Alexander
Ken Hamlin
Mack Strong
Michael Bouleware
Ken Hamlin without a doubt on defense...a few weeks from now, after Trufant stops getting burned, I will bring him up, but for now, I dont feel like defending a guy who hasnt been helping his cause so far this season.
ReplyDeleteAlba pointed out the big hits...big hits are just as exciting as anything else in football, with exception to maybe the TD. What sets football apart from baseball defensively is the hits. Yes, diving catches are awesome, I personally love them, but in football people would rather see the big hit...
What we also have in Hamlin is the leadership...This guy is low key in the media (probably the media's fault more than his...lets face it, he doesnt play for the Eagles), but he is very outspoken in game and after game, before game, watching game, match game, video game, whatever...got a alittle carried away there, but you get the point...where there is competition, this guy is leading...
You never see him going off on his own doing some taunt like he is great after a defensive stop...instead he is out yelling out his teammates, getting them fired up. The defense feeds off of that...he gets hyper, they get hyper...that gives you extra energey you need to survive the season.
The leadership role brings along something else: setting an example. For one, this guy has a tremendous work effort (think back...Bobby Taylor is known to have one of the most vigorous workout routines in the NFL...and he took Hamlin with him every single day)...the dedication Hamlin showed as a 2nd year player putting ridiculous effort in to get better can only help, not only him, but the teammates...maybe they get in better shape, maybe they gain more energy, but most importantly, they catch on to his leadership abilities...Hamlin is a second year player doing veteran routines...if that rubs off on teammates...we have a bunch of veterans no matter how young they are...
Hamlin backs up his efforts by playing smart on the field. His tackling skills are pretty good, and he doesnt need to horse collar when he isnt making a big hit (not that im referring to anyone particular, maybe a hint: Cowboys #31 S Roy Williams)
If Hamlin stays healthy, and remains with this team...he WILL be in the ROH, without question...
Oh yeah...he also has a great nickname
and to add to his workout ethic...his routine following Taylor ended up helping him do something our defense as a whole needs to do: stay healthy during the season...
ReplyDeleteHamlin is one of 8 NFL players on defense to play every single snap last year...the only Seahawk...thats ridiculous, especially for a guy playing with a sore shoulder, and a guy who does alot of tackling...
This probably isnt possible, but if everyone started getting routines similar to the one he got from Bobby...maybe they would stay a little more healthy? Could you imagine a whole season, with your starting defense in tact on nearly every single play?
Noone will ever get that perfection...but if you can't gain perfection, then you clearly have room to improve...Hamlin is key to helping our defense do that, off the field
Great idea check, the discussions that did spring up were usually "off topic" on other various posts, so they sometimes got buried.
ReplyDeleteWell, alba did hit on some of the defense... he ain't much of a reader that one. But he is right, of all the current Seahawks, Walter Jones is the most likely candidate for ROH and HOF, probably a lock, as he is not only the best now, but very few LTs compare historically. Of course since alba named everyone else too, there is little left to discuss, except...
Kenny Hamlin has not performed up to his ability. He has shown flashes, even in his first game, (how ya doing, I'm Donte Stallworth, welcome to the league; yeah, back at you, here's your helmet) with his devastating hits, and last year convincingly added his coverage skills, 4 int, 5 PD. But he hasn't even started.
This year, thus far, he is getting it done in the run game and in the backfield. In fact, he is easily the best and most consistent player in our heralded secondary in my opinion. I thought last year that he was the last player on our deflated D to give up, a man can only take so much... I felt sorry for him. But its obvious his fire is rekindled this year, and football gods willing, won't have to go it alone anymore. He is controlling the middle of the field, and with improved line and backer help, he will be free to deliver the shivers and pluck the pigs. I expect his best statistical year.
He is the total package, and I think he will prove to be better than Kenny Seahawk Sr.
Posted by JoSCh
You're right JoSCh...I'm a skimmer...not a reader!
ReplyDeleteTook me three re-reads to discover my gaffe. Please accept my apology for mentioning offensive players in this thread. I'm putting myself in an 8 hour time out from the blog now. I"M A BAD BLOGGER!!! :-(
Posted by alba
Personally I think the guy with the most talent, and therefore the highest probability of getting into the RoH (barring trade or defection of course) is Tubbs. It's wat too early to tell yet, but he has the talent necessary. Boulware has an outside chance also. IF Lofa continues to progress (and I truly believe he will) there is an outside chance there too, but he may not have the sheer talent necessary to get there. I liken him more to a Dat Ngyen of the Cowboys type, undersized but always get it done because of heart and smarts. OF course I would not be surprised if he proves me wrong on that and exceeds even my expectations.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, in looking at this defense, if I had to wagre money, I would say that Nobody on this defense makes the RoH. In fact, the only guy on this team who I think will is Walter Jones. Hass has a decent chance as well, so would SA but I doubt he's even here next season.
Oh monkey, everybody was getting along so well and you come up with this?!? Bad monkey.
ReplyDeleteGetting in the ROH takes the most talent? I submit Steve Largent , who according to his HOF bio was "a 5-11, 187-pound wide receiver with only average size and speed but armed with exceptional determination and concentration, became one of history's most outstanding pass catchers..."
You think that Hass won't, but Krieg did? Hass should have a better Seahawks legacy, and that is based on talent. He is a more talented QB than Krieg. Stats for Hass and for Krieg, consider 02, 03, 04 for Hass, 84, 85,86 for Krieg. Go ahead and say playoff wins, and I say Hass still plays, we're in a tie for division now, getting ready to own it.
I have more to say, but I think I have made my point convincingly. What say you to that?
And sorry to have taken this back to the O side of the ball. The defense is currently too young to compare with stats, but Kenny Hamlin is the MAN. Tubbs is too, but monkey already pointed that he has the best chance. I was arguing against his ROH thing. monkey, did you mean HOF? Cause that is a different animal.
Posted by JoSCh
Before I get into individuals I want to talk about the defense as a whole. Remember last year, early, when they were ranked in the top 10 after the first few games. This year we're in the exact same place--isn't that interesting. Does this mean the D is going to fall apart, or has something changed? I think something has changed.
ReplyDeleteThis year there have been many missed D turnover opportunities--fumbles blown off by officials, dropped INTs, etc. At the start of last year, the D was a turnover machine. As a result their ranking last year was artificially inflated. This year they have 0 takeaways. While that's not a good thing, it's also not all bad. It means that they're playing consistenly, solid defense, and not inflated by a few big plays.
I don't think the D will finish in the top ten, (let's hope I'm wrong), but I think we're seeing the progress we expected last year and it will keep them out of the bottom 10. Injuries, Lofa/Tubbs stagnation and poor backup play remain real risks. But I think the D may now have the consistency to greatly improve their 3rd down stops and get themselves off the field.
The ROH is about good play and endearing yourself to the community. I don't know if there's a D ROH player on the field, but there are some possiblities. The young studs need to sign a couple contracts and stick around. The FA veteran need to finish out here.
Overall, I'd say Hamlin, Tubbs, Trufant, Boulware and Darby have a chance. I know, Darby seems like a stretch, but he's tailor made for Seattle--all heart. He's like Mac-10, Edgar, Mack Strong.
Hamilin I'd say is the most likely ROH. He has the Easely comparison factor, he's played hard since day one, and has Gary Payton type bite to back up his bark.( Did you see NY Vinnie's interview with Hamilin after the Jag game? He was absolutely pissed about losing and ready to rip someone's head off. Brilliant!) Did you seem him close on Vick's first sweep.
Trufant is an interesting option. He looked good for 2 years opposite Lucas (who I hated to see go) and a local guy to boot. Now with Dyson on the opposite side, he's not looking so good. Did teams attack Lucas and give Trufant a pass the past few years? Is Dyson so much better that teams are picking on Trufant? Have the coverage calls just been horrible? Or has he just had a few bad plays? Only time will tell.
Posted by bokonon
I wrote a huge comment talking about free agency and how it might keep players out of our ROH, but lost it. Since I don't feel like typing it again, I'll just give my list of players (sorry JoSCh, I've included offensive players) that I think will be in the ROH:
ReplyDelete1. Cortez Kennedy (I know, current players, but how is he not in?)
2. Walter Jones (entirely too dominant not to be)
3. Shaun Alexander (Future hall of famer. Just hope he stays here)
4. Marcus Trufant (led the team in tackles, WSU product, will rebound this season, count on it)
5. Matt Hasslebeck (Maybe a reach, he didn't have Largent to throw to)
6. Kenny Hamlin (Dude can flat out hit, but sometimes goes for the big play too hard, and gives up the play instead)
7. Chad Brown (I know, not current, but when healthy, simply frightening)
8. Steve Hutchinson (Jones wouldn't be as good with a lesser guard beside him)
9. Robbie Tobeck (Another Coug and a sentimental fan favorite)
10. Michael Boulware (Might be low, but he is only in his second year, let's see a couple of good seasons first)
That's my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em
5. Marcus Trufant
Posted by PaulieP
Bo, I agree up to "I don't think the D will finish in the top ten " and I think you provide the arguement why with "they're playing consistenly, solid defense, and not inflated by a few big plays". The big plays are coming, and they are already closing on top 10. But that doesn't matter because...
ReplyDeleteThe rating system for total defense, rushing defense, and passing defense aren't exactly science. We played 2 very good rushing teams, allowed a fair amount of yards to them, which is the barometer, but only allowed one TD. We allowed few passing yards, again the barometer, but are middle of the road in passing TDs. Our defense played very well without the big plays, but gave them up. We are ranked 25 vs. the run, 8 vs. the pass, but I would say our run D is better than our pass at this point.
What the true barometer for this should be is a more composite look that takes the win/loss column into play, schedule strength, "garbage time" points scored against, very short field goals (TD stops in the red zone). This has been, in this limited sampling, what our defense has done well against better teams. I think of your 3 risks, injuries to an excess or on key players is the only one I fear, and frankly DE is the trouble spot. I think our DT, LB and DB depth can take a hit of one player, possibly 2, in each.
Rest of the post I completely agree with, and the Trufant questions are intriguing, I have to agree, only time will tell, but I am optimistic that he is just "out of groove" right now.
Posted by JoSCh
Jones isnt just the best T in the game...maybe one of the top 3 all time...this guy is just ridiculous...how many times have you've been excited to watch an olineman in action? Its fun watching him push a guy all the way to the sidelines...unbelieveable
ReplyDeleteI think Hutch is the best G in the game, but he has competition there with a guy named Alan Faneca...thats a 51-49 situation to me
Posted by adp
you're a little off course, check, this isn't Rome, this is Egypt!
ReplyDeletePosted by alba