Word out of the league offices now is that Holmgren misspoke since they are standing behind the ill fated calls.Click the link above or the picture when I find one!
So to recap, we got screwed by two bad calls, won the game anyway, got temporary vindication, and are now getting screwed again.
Yup, sounds like the typical NFL treatment of the Seahawks!
This is by far and away the longest "instant" replay decision in league history!!!
ReplyDeleteCould Mike be an evil genius and painted the league in a corner like this to either A) assure better calls for Seahawks in the future, B) creatively channel his anger and frustration at their incompetence, C) put instant replay to death, once and for all or D) all of the above
Posted by alba
Weird.
ReplyDeleteIf you look carefully at how ESPN quotes Holmgren, he never really says that the NFL admitted mistake:
""I had a conversation with the league, and there were mistakes that were made, which we felt at the time," "
It could be that HE said there were mistakes made.
I'll have to see quotes from the other sources to see what Mikey really said. MORE SOON.
Posted by Bluefoot
I picked this picture since the refs definitely 'dropped the ball' and the look on his face is a great mix of cluelessness and someone who just got caught doing something wrong!
ReplyDeletePosted by alba
Isn't there a bit on Total Access, the NFL Network show, where the League's head ref reviews controversial calls and passes judgement? There is and I know I've seen him...on TV...point out how refs have blown calls. So some random TV personality can get the refs to come clean but a head coach can't?
ReplyDeletePosted by bokonon
UPON FURTHER REVIEW OF A FURTHER REVIEW OF A FURTHER REVIEW
ReplyDeleteFrom Sando's Blog :
"NOTE: I never reported anything about two officiating errors. Holmgren's comments pertained to the Shockey call.
Here is the transcript of what Holmgren said when asked about the officiating:
"I had a quick conversation with the league and there were some mistakes that took place, which we felt at the time. But, I get excited about it just like any coach would, particularly if you think it cost you the ball game. But the fact is, it’s a tough job. The officials have a tough job. They are honest guys doing the best they can. You would hope replay would help if everything functions properly. I would say 99 percent of the time it works and then there are a couple times where for whatever reason it just doesn’t work."
Holmgren on the explanation he received for why the Jeremy Shockey TD was not overturned:
"They didn’t have irrefutable evidence of that. I’m not in there looking in the thing and I don’t know what pictures he’s seeing. I know what my coaches are seeing. They are supposed to be seeing the same feeds that the officials are seeing. It’s hard. It’s hard, it’s a bang, bang play. I thought the first one I don’t think Jeremy (Shockey) had both feet on the ground when the ball came out. And then of course the other one that I couldn’t challenge, but fortunately they buzzed it from upstairs on the one he caught and bobbled and then it had to come back in the overtime. That was a big play for us."
Holmgren on the Amani Toomer TD:
"I thought it was a great catch. He just made a phenomenal play. It was close, but on that one the coverage could have been better, you can put it that way." "
But compare Mike Sando's report to how the Associated Press took it and put meaning into it that was never there, as reported on SI.com:
"KIRKLAND, Wash. (AP) -- The Seahawks received rare word from the NFL that referee Larry Nemmers erred Sunday on the New York Giants' two touchdowns in Seattle's 24-21 overtime victory.
"I had a conversation with the league, and there were mistakes that were made, which we felt at the time," said Seattle coach Mike Holmgren, one of eight men on the NFL competition committee that oversees rules and game operations.
The NFL said touchdown catches made by Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer shouldn't have been ruled completions."
Props to Sando for his accurate reporting. Shame on the AP for 'creating' news, rather than reporting it.
Posted by Bluefoot
the bottom line is, we got robbed...i dont care if the league wants to admit it or not...
ReplyDeleteIts still very, very weird.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad the NFL is saying something though. It would have been easy for them to say, Seattle won the game anyway, let it go. They stood up for their officials.
The NFL has consistantly the best officiating out of the four major sports. Yes, there are bad calls. But the reason the big blown calls go down in history is because they are rare.
Go back to the ALCS. Lots of bad calls in that series. No one will remember them next season because MLB umpires aren't good. Same in the NBA. Whats the last terrible call in the NBA? Pick one out of the thousdands if you like. Ditto the NHL.
The reason we have Top 10 Worst NFL Calls is because the real bad ones are few and far between.
All that said, this situation, whether the initial calls were correct or not, should turn into an evelution of instant replay. As I said before, have a bunch of rule book junkies sit around the biggest tv screen you can find, look at all ten billion camera angles the NFL Network has, and make a ruling. The right one. No controversy.
The other thing with having a group of guys. Lets say its a group of five. Three guys look at the initial ruling. One guy looks at the spot of the ball. One other guy looks at the timing of the play. If you have individual guys working on each problem, it will get done faster...
And that said, one other thing. I know it slows the game down, but enough with the time limit. What do you want to bet that on longer reviews it gets easier and easier to say, "Inconclusive evidence" The time limit is ignored anyway. Just tell the officals to take all the time they need, but to also keep in mind that the game must be moved along.
I still don't think the Shockey one was called correctly, but whatever. We won. We're 9-2. We've proven a whole lot more than the Bears have. Don't let the officials spoil the party that is this season.
"Our officiating department never discussed with the Seahawks the Amani Toomer touchdown reception, which was properly called. The Jeremy Shockey touchdown catch at the end of the first half was not overturned because the referee determined that there was insufficient visual evidence to reverse the call. "
ReplyDeleteThey made a point of saying that the Toomer touchdown was properly called, but didn't say the same thing about the Shockey call.
"The report that the NFL informed the Seahawks of officiating mistakes on two Giants touchdown receptions is inaccurate."
Yet they are considering punishing Holmgren for revealing confidential information when he told the press he had received word abotu mistakes in some of the calls.
So by my reading between the line, they must have admitted to Holmgren that the Shokey touchdown was a mistake, though the ref didn't overturn in. And they must have admitted to another mistake about a non-TD play, since Holmgren mentiones "a couple". That seems to be the only way to resolve the statements. No, they did not tell Holmgren that mistakes were made on 2 touchdown calls, just one. And yet Holmgren did reveal confidential information by mentioning the one TD call.
Posted by highwatermark
Slightly off topic, but what about the crappiest of call--the illegal grounding call. Karl Rove couldn't have run a better campaign to get that call. It was horrible.
ReplyDeleteI think that penalty is given out erroneously more times than not. It's worse than some of the phantom PI call you see.
Posted by bokonon
Very deductive, mark.
ReplyDeleteBTW, have you ever thought of becoming a contributor? Drop me an email if you're interested. It's in my profile (linked in the green box.)
Posted by Bluefoot
It should be intersting how this pans out, but you know what? I'm already sick of it.
ReplyDeleteBring on the Eagles!
hear, hear, let's not turn this into a TO situation!!!
ReplyDeletePosted by alba
Figures! Of course the NFL won't admit to botching anything, it's CYA time now for the NFL.
ReplyDeletefunny, they have done this before...
ReplyDeletewe have publically mentioned the apology letters when we get them...the only difference is, this year...we're 9-2, and FORCED our way into media attention...so of course the nfl doesn't want its mistakes public now
it was ok when nobody cared about us...but now that we're officially elite, its going to be everywhere...
im POSITIVE holmgren has mentioned these letters several times, including this year against Washington (remember the ridiculous 3rd down pass interference call that resulted into an easy TD, instead of the punt it shoulda been?)
i honestly dont understand this situaton at all
Posted by adp
Mike Sando just echoed what I said:
ReplyDeleteYou're right that Holmren has talked about his conversations with the league dozens of times over the years. The league only notices, it seems, when Seattle is 9-2 and those comments come after a game against a New York team.
Posted by adp
Sando rocks.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree, its a W, nothing more to see here... until something else happens!
Posted by JoSCh
I do love the fact though that all the reporters who interpreted his comments wrong and wrote these inflamatory stories, are now writing the stories of how he's going to be held accountable for what he said.
ReplyDeleteNote to defenders of the first ammendment: HE didn't say ANYTHING. You guys are the ones who mucked up. Admit it and move along.
Posted by alba
Do you think the refs will retaliate? Since the boss is now being perceived as calling them out, do you think we'll get a *tuck rule* pulled on us? Stay tuned.
ReplyDeletePosted by JoSCh
No, they'll just stick to the "not enough visual evidence" mantra and salt it with "needing to make a fast decision" and "game atmosphere" seasoning.
ReplyDeletePosted by alba
I'm talking about in future games... will we get shafted to an even higher degree than normal. Obviously they can't be completely ridiculous bad calls (at least not anymore than they are already), but will be dinged, e.g. holding on every play, since it happens, more? I would think if this issue gets any more media attention they won't, but if this goes away quietly...
ReplyDeletePosted by JoSCh
Well, we're 1 for 2, but still should have won in regulation if the refs called it correctly.
ReplyDeleteHead official said that the initial call on the field on the Shocky TD should have been no catch, since it was not clear from live action that he got both feet down with control of the ball.
Of course he said that upon review, there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the call on the field, so in essense, the refs didn't muck up, but they would have preferred the initial call was incomplete pass.
On the Toomer catch they froze the screen at a point which showed both feet in bounds before sliding out.
I don't think this will come back to haunt us.
And don't these networks know they have the score crawler on the bottom of the screen?
Every show I've watched that shows these controversial calls replays them in full screen mode, making it impossible to see anything behind the Cal State-Gonzaga basketball score!
Posted by alba