Sunday, June 05, 2005

Is This The Right Thing To Be Saying?

I was reading the Seattle P-I looking for things I may have missed and I came across one line in an article by Clare Farnsworth (click the external link to read the article) which concerns me, and leaves me thinking that the criticisms of how Holmgren handled the Koren Robinson thing from the start may have been accurate.

So without further ado, here's the comment:

"But Holmgren admits he is uncertain if any of them (the recievers on the current roster) can replace everything that has been lost with the release of Robinson."

Perhaps I am reading too much into one comment, and I am sure I will take some heat for this thread, but please keep an open mind and hear out my reasoning, for my concern.

Firstly, one has to question the wisdom of publicly questioning the talent of the recievers on the roster, which he obviously is doing, by saying that there may not be a player who can replace him. I wonder how the other recievers on this team, who have kept their noses clean and have worked very hard in the training room and on the field, take this slight on their abilities? I wonder if the recievers on the roster don't feel as if the front office is speaking out of both sides of it's face, when it says that on one hand, character and hard work are most important to this team; then the head coach makes the assertion, that there may not be anyone on the roster who can replace a player who only played the first half of last season, and who, when he was on the field, had a drop rate of over 40%.

How hard can it be really, to replace someone who gave negligable output? One would think that in order to replace him, all you would have to do is show up, considering the fact that Koren wasn't even on the field much of the time. But Holmgren apparently has forgotten what really was, and only remembers what could have been.

Also, I question the wisdom of publicly calling into question a tough decision that had to be made, and one which Holmgren himself, did not have the cajones to make. Is it wise to say something publicly, which can, potentially, lead to a rift between Holmgren and Ruskell?
Now you may say that Holmgren isn't calling into question, Ruskell's decision, perhaps not, directly; but indirectly, telling the press, that the players Ruskell brought in, may not be good enough to replace Koren's potential, is in fact, calling into question the moves that Ruskell has made this offseason, he is indirectly saying that the moves Ruskell made, simply were not good enough.

When Holmgren was taking criticism from the press and many fans about the way he handled the Robinson issue, I felt that there were things, which we as fans, and even the press, were not privvy to, so that the criticisms were unfair.
However, since Holmgren has made this comment, regarding how difficult Robinson's talent will be to replace; even in spite of the fact, that in four years, we never got more than a glimpse of that potential, it makes me wonder if Mike Holmgren has in fact lost touch with reality.

My question is, what's so difficult to replace? Just what exactly is everything that has been lost? Potential? Potential is just potential, and it means nothing, if it never becomes anything more than potential. In the case of Koren Robinson, it never did, so why is Holmgren bemoaning the loss of potential? Wouldn't it be wiser to instead focus on what you do have, rather than what could have been and never was?

It is my opinion that Holmgren did indeed become so enamoured with Robinson's potential, that he lost touch with what really was, and was therefore, incapable of making a rational judgement regarding him.
Which is why, in the end, it took someone new, with strong convictions, to finally do what was right, and really needed to be done all along. Thankfully, we now have a man, TIm Ruskell, who is capable of making the tough decisions, otherwise, we would likely still be involved in the merry-go-round that is Koren Robinson's football career.


  1. I won't go into a big defense of Holmgren, we all know my opinion of my fav Coach. But I will point out one error in Monkey's article.

    Quote> "......that in four years, we never get more tahn a glimpse of that potential......"

    The facts....Koren's '02 season stats....
    games started 16, catches 78, yards 1240, avg 15.9, longest 83 yds, TDs 5

    ........Jackson's best numbers thus far '04 season....
    games started 16, catches 87, yards 1199, avg 13.8, longest 56 yds, TDs 7

    .......JJs best....from his '01 season w/ the Giants..
    games started 14, catches 51, yards 706, avg 13.8, longest 46 yds, TDs 3

    .......Pathon....from his '04 season w/ the Saints....
    Games started 15, catches 34, yards 581, avg 17.0, longest 38 yds, TDs 1

    I just doubt any of these players can honestly look at their numbers and complain about the comment. After all when he played he 'was ' better.

    I just think that with the amount of respect Holmgren gets from his players, (especially the offensive players) that he's been cut a lot of slack by them for his defense of a kid he had so much invested in. Both professioanlly and personally.

    Anyway just another point of view.

    Posted by vin

  2. i agree with you

    ill add to the 'controversialness' though


    this means you, you disgusting piece of crap, Terrell Owens

    this means you, you disgusting piece of crap, Koren Robinson

    the only difference is, KRob isnt a jerk as a person in general (from a friendship standpoint...lets face it, hes a nice guy overall)

    so i will say this...Koren Robinson is not a star, nor will ever be one, unless he gets his act straight...and Terrell Owens is not a star...I have Darrell Jackson ranked ahead of that overrated piece of crap...why? BECAUSE HE IS BETTER

    which leads me to my next point

    A STAR PLAYER IS A STAR OFF THE FIELD, TOO...leave the talk on the field...the definition of an athlete is a person who showcases his or her talent in an effort to entertain, and give these lost generations something to look up to...a motive...a dream or goal...another words...ROLE MODELS

    therefore, Terrell Owens, IMO is barely 2nd tier on my list of WRs...i could care less what anyone says, America is a fucking popularity contest...and Owens wouldnt of been considered to be so great had he play for Seattle

    im bringing him into this because of his recent comments:

    'i dont have to be an Eagle'...'i dont care what my teammates think'...'this is not being selfish...this is being fair...if im a good player, i deserve to be paid like one' WHY SIGN THE FREAKING CONTRACT?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    since noone has said anything good about KRob in a long time...i will say this...he isnt as bad as Terrell Owens is when it comes to being a cancer

    as for Holmgren, i see your point...i didnt notice the cluelessness until you pointed out his statement...and it makes sense

    the league, not just the team, can do without these selfish jerkoffs...

    amazing how Spreewell made 'i need to feed my family' comments and gets bashed...but noone is magnifying Terrell Owens saying 'i dont care what my teammates think, my family comes first' when it comes to his contract problems

    the media has single handedly destroyed America...personal lives of celebrities everywhere...favoritism balance

    and its people like Owens and Robinson that makes the media so negative on things...if it isnt the favorite teams, or popular players...its the negative things

    this leads to my final point...i think Holmgren has watched the media too much lately...

    he may not have Robinson, but he still has 50+ players who give a damn

    he needs to just make his comments and be done with it...feeding the media will only magnify the negativity (then again, when has the media said anything good about a Seattle team?...only noticed when its bad)

    i know the transition of my thoughts is messy...but im glad i got to vent this stuff

    thanks monkey!

  3. Interesting take Randy, and I will grant that that one good year was a good year, but that's just it, one year out of four, to me, is just a glimpse of potential.

  4. Holmgren was either too stuck on the media exploiting KRob's potential...or stuck on the 2002 season KRob had...

    I had nothing but respect for Holmgren...but im losing it all if he doesn't come through this season with a lot less sloppyness...

    hes letting his players walk all over him, and hes lucky Ruskell is up his ass now to put some steel in his balls...

    he needs to make these players buy into his way of thinking...otherwise whats the point of coaching

  5. "hes letting his players walk all over him, and hes lucky Ruskell is up his ass now to put some steel in his balls...

    he needs to make these players buy into his way of thinking...otherwise whats the point of coaching"

    Agreed ADP.

  6. A., I have one thing i'd like to interject.....

    IMO you don't need to 'make ' players buy into a system, you need players that buy into a system without coaxing. Hense the elimination of guys like Simmons and others.

    But I do agree that Ruskell will add some tough love to the team that Mike seemed reluctant to show. Tim seems to be taking a bit less Christian tack when dealing with nincompoops. 

    Posted by vin

  7. great point, vinny...

    but all in all, the players that buy into the system, as the ones who should be on the team...

    the system is a symbol of the team...if you buy into the system, you buy into the team

    btw...i apologize for being a little angry...i just got done readin TO's latest speeches right before i read the rant...and i was give anything to have the position he this frustrates me when they take it for granted

    the Panthers hate the idea of getting KRob, regardless of their horrible WR situation...wonder why...

  8. The guy was a cancer. He brought the level of play down by everybody. The WR's the most. Give the new free agents a shot and let Urban have a chance and we will be better off. 

    Posted by seahusker

  9. ADP, trust me....first I'm sure no one here disagrees with any of your' points especially about TO. He's a just another punk with talent. What a waste of the talent. 

    Posted by vin

  10. People too often forget that leadership works both ways. A person can be a leader who does thing s the right way and shows others by example, the right way to do things, or, Like Koren, they can be a leader who leads others down the wrong path. People like KRob, with the talent that he had, are emulated by others for good or for bad, and when the Seahawks drafted players or picked them up in free agency, they would look to Koren to determine what is expected of them. What Koren showed the young or new guys, was that what was expected of them, was really very little. He showed them that it was OK to sleep late and miss meetings and practices, that it was OK to walk around with a swagger that you had not earned, that it was OK not to follow the rules, etc...
    Talented high draft picks like Koren are leaders whether or not they want to be, because other new players, invariably look to them to see what is expected. Ultimately this is why the team as a whole is better off without him. It's just too bad that Holmgren still has apparently not figured that out, or if he has, that it took him so long to do so.

  11. exactly...

    as a player, you are a role model no matter what...not just to fans and kids, but players too

    how you conduct yourself and how you take your PRIVALEDGE serious is 1/3 of the equation of a superstar...the others being Talent, and Consistency

  12. Monkey - I'm trying to catch up here.

    One the face of it, I think you're reading too much into one statement, kind of like the Jerry Rice quote on "respecting Rod Smith too much to take his number." Truth is, K-Rob had TREMENDOUS talent when his head was not inserted in his own rectum. Unfortuntately, that was not very often during his Seahawk career.

    That being said, it is an interesting comment to make in the press, and could potentially mean more than it says.

    He could however, just be "calling out" the 20 or 30 WRs we have on the roster these days, and zinging them a little to rise to the occasion.


    Posted by alba

  13. BTW....I would be remiss if I didn't comment on the OUTSTANDING graphic chosen for this piece!

  14. just be "calling out" the 20 or 30 WRs we have on the roster these days, and zinging them a little to rise to the occasion 

    Gotta agree with that! Hey Pathon, you've been a good #3 WR for a long time, you ready, you wanna step up? Taco, Willis, Urban, how's practice squad and special teams working out, you wanna get a starting job, show it!

    Plus in all likelyhood none of these guys have the physical skills that Karen has/had. But since they are the benchmark, neither did Largent or Rice... 

    Posted by Josh from SC

  15. And now this, from mah boy Mike Khan...

    "That's Jerheme's work ethic. Every year, he's improved. From last year to now, he's improved more than any other player on the team, and I'm not just talking about wide receivers."

    To hear Hasselbeck go on and on about Urban, it would make you think he really might be the guy who is given the full shot to replace Robinson. Maybe it's a stretch, but every year there are guys from unspectacular backgrounds who make a big splash in the NFL.

    Maybe that's the case with Urban.

    "I'm not going to go on record saying who should be the guy because the coaching staff may not agree," Hasselbeck said. "I've been through something similar myself in the past, so I don't want to do that to anybody else. But I do have a pretty good idea of who I think should be there."


    Although Pathon is top of the depth chart right now with D-Jack, and Urban isn't on it except for KR 

    Posted by Josh from SC

  16. If I am rehashing some points ...I'm sorry but this thread is very long and I read the highlites.

    I think that WR on the Seahawks roster knew K-rob was the most talented. They all talked about it...and the truth is JJ or JP cant replace K-rob talent wise.

    But the one thing they bring is work ethic and a desire to win and I think that can take the place of talent...I would take a steve largent over T.O. any day and we all know that on a talent level T.O. is better...Largent was work ethic based and thats why he was successful.

    The west coast O is built on short passing plays... so WR does not have to have the most talent...justbe able to get open and hang on to the ball and maybe a few yards after the catch...but catching the ball is key. Because of that i think WR's are better...not as talented but better.

    Lastley, K-rob was a holmy boy and he will miss him...but people are right he was to soft on this kid and that made things worse...I dont think that it will effect the front office...I think Holmy knew he had to go...I mean how many chances do you give someone.

  17. The simple facts are this: Koren was bigger, stronger, and faster than any other receiver we have on the roster right now. That is what the statement made. Period.

    The Koren situation disappointed many, but to say that Holmgren shouldn't call it what it is, is ridiculous. These receivers have played together for years. You don't think they know that Koren had more talent than they did? If not, you aren't giving them any credit.

    I love how in one post people are calling Holmgren out for his treatment of Robinson, saying that he was too easy on him, gave him too many chances, but in the next breath are so frightened that Holmgren damaged the egos of his other fragile papers that they suggest he should be less than honest when assessing his team.

    Holmgren cares about his players and refuses to see them as mere commodities to be traded back and forth. He is the one who changed the rules that forced players out during drug suspensions. He knows that the best place a player can be is with his team, with his support network during those weeks - and the league agreed with him. He tried hard to make a difference in Koren's life, because when dealing with issues of substance abuse and self-destructive behavior, there is more than football at stake.

    And the comment about Ruskell giving Holmgren some steel where it counts? Hate that image. But love the image of one of you guys saying it to Holmgren's face. Now that has just made my day.

    Posted by Ann Onimous

  18. It's hard not to get the impression that Holmgren's putting in the last word on this matter. Myself, I think along the lines of Koren's potential and 50 cents getting you a phone call. The dude is seriously messed up professionally and personally. Even Vin's numbers show that in KR's best year, he still SCORED FEWER TOUCHDOWNS than D-Jack. I don't think Koren will really be missed to the degree that Holmgren should have said what he said.

  19. "The west coast O is built on short passing plays... so WR does not have to have the most talent...justbe able to get open and hang on to the ball and maybe a few yards after the catch...but catching the ball is key. 

    There it is, 4 yards and a cloud of dust for runs, 6 yards and a pile of DBs on passes. Move the chains.

    Ms Ominous, some good points re the Coach, however, I wouldn't care to be the one planting steel, fat or not, Holmy is a big, big fella.

    Posted by Josh from SC

  20. "I wonder if the recievers on the roster don't feel as if the front office is speaking out of both sides of it's face, when it says that on one hand, character and hard work are most important to this team; then the head coach makes the assertion, that there may not be anyone on the roster who can replace a player who only played the first half of last season, and who, when he was on the field, had a drop rate of over 40%. "

    The way I see it, relasing Robinsons shows the other players on the team that no matter how great you could be, no matter how high a draft pick, or how much pure talent you have, if you don't act the way you should act then you don't belong here. And I like that message.

    And as for this being Ruskell's decision and Holmgren maybe speaking out of turn - do you know that it wasn't Holmgrens decision too? The way I see it, Holmgren gave KRob one last chance if, in return, he went to rehab. After the latest incident, I think Holmgren was just as willing as anyone to see KRob out of here. Disappointed, yes, both in the loss of a person he gave a lot to and in the loss of a reciever with tons of potential. But one article mentioned that Holmgren wouldn't take KRobs call. If Holmgren disagreed with the decision, I think he'd have talked to KRob about it. So at the very least, I think Holmgren agreed with the decision, and I suspect it was more Homlgrens doing that Ruskells.

    I see Holmgren's comments as a positive for the team. It further emphasizes character over talent, by showing that even the most talented players will eventually get canned if they screw up. And it's an honest assessment of KRob's potential which he failed to live up to.

    I actually feel a bit sorry for Koren. I sincerely hope he can get his act together someday - hopefully past his football prime, becuase I'd hate to see the Seahawks play against him... 

    Posted by Highwater

  21. I just got home and read the many comments left here, and while I would love to respond directly to each and every one of them I cannot for the fact that you would all want ot string me up for the boredom of having to sift through so many responses.
    What I will say is this, the responses that this thread has recieved so far, whether for or against the conclusions I have drawn, are honestly some of the most well articulated, thoughtful and respectful, of both the situation and the author of this thread, that I have read in my blogging career.
    When I go visit other blog sites and I brag about the level of intelligence and knowledge of the people here at 12SS, this is why! Whether you agreed or disagreed with my thread, you ALL had excellent insights and logical well reasoned thoughts and opinions to add to this thread, thanks, seriously to all of you; this is why I love this place, this 12 Seahawks Street so much, it's because of all of you guys!

  22. Ditto. This is the best Seahawks thread I have seen anywhere in a looooong time.

    I think all of you have legitimate points -- what Holmgren said leaves a lot between the lines.

    But I think any receiver worth keeping, that puts the team first, make sacrafices, and is willing to do what it takes to win a championship, will not have a beef with the release of Koren, but rather it will be a welcome relief.

    They will also take Holmgren's words the the proverbial grain of salt - After all, Koren's hands are where Touchdown drives went to die. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO REPLACE.