Sho - good post, but you should have included a link to the story.Just sayin'!
That's what Alexander says..... he's said a lot of things the last few months. I'll beleive it when I see it. And I'd like to add, I agree, he'd better get to 'all' the camps and mini camps he's required to be at.
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Doesn't sound like he's planning on camp.
Guys...he CAN'T go to camp without a deal in place, and he's NOT gonna sign the one year tender, so stop expecting him to show up when it would be career-suicide for him to do so without a contract.Shaun Alexander officially has the summer off, unless something happens on draft day.After July 15th, things will heat up.
And notice the choice of words "once the season starts" not "before the season starts". This may mean that he's already planning to hold out a couple games, ala Big Walter, to see if he can force the Seahawks hand.
So how is this good for the organization? By any stretch of the imagination?He isn't going to get reps at catching the ball(obviously needed), he won't get to improve his blitz recognition and blocking skills(again, an obvious need), and he is a whole summer out of sync with the offense, you tell me how this is going to help anyone but Shaun?!?
This situation is a perfect example of why the salary cap needs to be abolished with the next CBA. I honestly believe that with the current situaltion, a T.C. holdout is bad for all parties involved, which I stated yesterday. With all these negatives in place, I think it would have been better to let him go in FA than deal with the mounting distraction and a six million dollar out-of-playing condition RB at the start of the year.I really admire the way the Pats deal with these situations, they solve them before they arise. They give the players a choice - sign this contract, or be a FA. They don't mess with the tag and all the negative effects that come with it.
(playing devil's advocate here)Well, if the organization was SOOO concerned about this, why wasn't HE offered a long term deal along with WJ and Hass?The organization had to realize upon Franchising Sir Shaun that this was a distinct possibility.And once the negotiating deadline passed, which BOTH sides allowed to happen without talking, it stop being about selfishness and became all about business.The truth is this DOESN'T help the organization and it DOESN'T help Shaun. However, that's just the way these things work out sometimes.
Blue - abolish the Salary Cap? Are you CRAZY??? Do you want to end up where Hockey is today?Don't blame this on the salary cap, blame it on Whitsit and the former front office bozos. They had ALL SEASON to work out deals with Matt, Hass and Shaun, but the truth is, nobody knew WHICH DIRECTION this franchise was going in mid-season, so you really can't blame them for waiting.The Pats will SURELY use their Franchise tag next season if they can't get a deal worked out with Brady...mark my words.And you can't just let something of extreme value walk out of your organization uncompensated, that's just not how business is done.Face it, Shaun's as much to blame as the FO. He didn't push to get a new contract cuz he wanted to see what he was worth on the open market.Granted, he didn't get that chance, but nobody broke down our doors when we said we'd be open to talking a trade for less that the usual Franny comp draft choices.
***DAMN****I meant franchise tag, not salary cap. The cap is an absolute must. The FT sucks for everyone, even the fans, but especially in this case.**SMACKING SELF ON HEAD***
If we lost the salary cap, we wouldn't end up like the HL, but more like MLB, with the haves and have nots. And although Paul Allen has a ton of money, you can bet that the Hawks wouldn't spend as much as Dallas, Oakland, Washington, Green Bay, and many others would. Salary caps are good for sports. Vin, he's not required to be anywhere right now. Not until he signs his tender.It might not be good for the organization, but who's to say every move a player makes has to be? You say that running back is the easiest role to step into, it should also be the easiest role to step BACK into after time off. But I will tell you how it could be good for the organization. We could end up with a Hall of Fame running back for his entire career. Albany, You're exactly right. At this point, it's all about business. The simple truth of it is, Shaun is taking it as a business decision, the Hawks are taking it as a business decision, and it's time the Fans do as well.
Right on Alba....I expect only two things to happen.1. Shaun is traded just before OR during the draft. However this is not likely!2. Shaun and the Hawks get to negotiations beginning on July 16th, and get him into camp as soon as possible following the signing of the tender or a Long-term deal.Either way he will not be at the off-season workouts or mini-camps!The "take" that this negotiation became "all about business" is EXACTLY right. I wouldn't be at the camps without a contract and in reality, neither would anyone else who has a brain in their head or an agent worth his salt. It is, what it is.....and at this moment, it's not about selfishness, not about team, it's all about business!!! Nothing more, nothing less. I also believe that the FO gave Mike a priority list when he signed-on as “consultant”. You could argue Walt versus Matt, one versus two, but I believe Shaun was priority #3 and there was only so much time. Two (Matt & Walt) out of Three…not bad!! AND, we still hold the first position to negotiate with Shaun. Job well done!Go Hawks!!!
I disagree Blue, without the franchise tag, we may have lost Jones for the past few years, and in truth, that situation worked out well for both sides, over the long haul.
I agree Paulie...Where did my "take" seem to say something different than we should protect the Franchise tag?I think the Tag has become a Huge negotiating tool. Larger than its original design!
Sorry SBL, that was directed to Bluefoot.
My mistake Paulie!This site improves daily! Great job all! ESPECIALLY Blue (bluefoot-that is)
The just need to rename it from the Franchise tag to something else:Freeze Tag?Career Coma?Siberian Selection?Zero Income Growth?The Green Banana?
Time out!Let's get this straight:Blue = BlueFoot, master of this domainSBL = SteelBlueLime, which sounds like the plot of some Jamaican caper film starring Nick Nolte and Shaq.OK, you may now resume the regularly scheduled blogging...
Blue - I'm still in the dark with what a "T.C. Holdout" is? Am I having a blonde moment?
TC - Training Camp
Ahhh...as an SBD brain fart slowly seeps out of my ear!Thanks SBL.And I'm staging my own hold out...I refuse to post any more on this topic until everyone reads the REST of the topics posted today!
Alba, you said...."....if the organization was soooo concerned...." Haven't we discussed this to death, he's not a good fit for the scheme, he isn't consistant as a reciever. So therefore he was #3 on the list and with no money to sign all three to long contrcts he was the Franny guy. Is this not accurate, if not please strighten me out. Thanks.
Alba, what makes ya think we haven't read them? That's why we're here, by the way please, one more comment to straighten me out, and I'll stop my birddoging.
Don't ask me to straighten you out and then threaten me if I do...I already have a wife!Regardless of his fit with the system, you're painting him as this selfish snob who is holding out of pre-season workouts and T.C. for spite.I'm just saying that it's not selfish or spiteful, just business. You're right about him being priority #3, thus the Franny Guy.But I'm just as right saying the FO had to expect this when they hit him with that tag.That's it...it's all good brother!
Alba, what makes ya think we haven't read them?Read, but 0 comments = hated it:-(
I threatened you? When? Where?Musta blacked out.
And all I'm saying is that if he were a 'team player' he'd have signed the one year tender, to help the team. But his ego made him wait for a better offer that never came.(I could be wrong on that assumption, but it sure looks that way to me)I don't believe you addressed that scenario.
12:35:08 - Is this not accurate, if not please strighten me out. 12:38:44 - one more comment to straighten me out, and I'll stop my birddoging. Sorry, read the second comment with a little more attitude than probably was intended!I always wanted to invent a keyboard that would type in larger and bolder point sizes the harder you hit the keys, so you could tell when someone was YELLING AT YOU!!!My bad...on with blogging!
But his ego made him wait for a better offer that never came...What one may call an EGO someone else may call shrewd business judgement.The better offer still may come, from the Seahawks or another team.We all laughed at WJ who used the franchise tag to take the summers off without fear of fines or reprisals. While it may be more important for a RB to be in camp for timing and such, we shouldn't judge Shaun by a double standard.
How exactly is waiting hurting the team? If the team is going to stick with him, like they say they are, and the runningback position is the easiest to step into, like some (you?) say it is, then his missing a few spring workouts will not hurt the team at all. They'll get a contract worked out, and then Shaun will step back into his role. The only way the team is hurt is if they don't plan on using Shaun. Then, their draft is changed, along with their trade status. But listening to Holmgren "I choose to think we're going to keep him" and Shaun "I expect a contract to be done once the season begins, and then we go for the next step" (both from the Trib) that isn't the direction we're headed.
Who was laughing about Walt taking the summer off? Not me, the ass needed the workouts, no matter how good ya are, practice makes perfect. It's always been the case.And the HB position is nothing like the Tackle spot, it's timing, and improving the things you suck at, like blitz pickups and catching the ball so we don't have to put Mo in on those situations.P, when did I EVER say that the HB spot could just be stepped into, I never wanted a rookie in that spot, and I'm pretty sure i've been a advocate of Mo getting the nod, either that or any other HB that can catch the stupid ball.I hope to God we don't sign him to a long term deal, he is not...let me repeat this for the hundredth time....is not the right HB for this offensive scheme.
This is the facts folks, "Regardless of his fit with the system, you're painting him as this selfish snob who is holding out of pre-season workouts and T.C. for spite.I'm just saying that it's not selfish or spiteful, just business. You're right about him being priority #3, thus the Franny Guy.But I'm just as right saying the FO had to expect this when they hit him with that tag."- albaNYHawkerRead this again in case you missed it! The simple facts are, that Alexander is not doing anything that any sane person wouldn't do in his situation. Alexander has an agent that advises him to do this NOT because the agent want's him to come across like a jerk, but because it's the only thing that makes sense for him to do financially. It doesn't make Alexander a jerk, or selfish, just a human. Also, until the 15th, everything is just speculation anyway, since neither side is talking until then. I know that many people would like to just write Alexander off as a selfish jerk, because it makes it easier for them to see him go elsewhere, but that really is not true. The truth is that throughout his career, with the exception of the stabbed in the back statement, Alexander has been a shining beacon of class and character. One statement does NOT undo that, nor does a potential holdout. Especially a holdout that really makes sense to him financially. I would love to jump on the hate Alex bandwagon and talk about what a jerk he is being, but the truth is, logically, I can't. He's not doing anything that I wouldn't do in his shoes, not anything.
Vin, if you didn't say that, I apologize, I've heard many pundits say that, and could have sworn you had to, but I've been wrong before (once).
That's where we're different people monkey, i'm a team player kinda guy and would've signed teh one year contract knowing that by being in camp I'm showing the team and Coaches that I'm in it for the betterment of the team, and therefore am worth more to everyone next season, my team and other teams that may be looking for a quality Back. But in sitting out, all I'm doing is showing my team, Coaches and other Organizations that it's all about me.In other words I'm a team player. A true quality human being, and a guy willing to scrifice a couple $ to help my team get a Championship.
Say what you want about Alexander, but love him or hate him, I think we all can agree that NOBODY can generate this kind of activity on a fan forum!Hartwell came close, but then he chose unwisely!!!
So Vinny, you'd never leave your job for the chance at more money?
I thought I did put a link,This was concerning Vins post about SA not fitting our system,Alexander is not a run of the mill back we can pick up anywhere,a back as good as Alexander coaches tweak there systems so they fit his style more.Your not going to find a back like him where we're picking.Do you think Travis Henry fits our system more,Alexander is a top notch back the type all teams want.Right now they don't have the money to sign him,But to say he doesn't fit our system is a stupid statement because he has been in it for so long.We wouldn't have drafted him if he didn't fit our system anyway.
First...Alba that's quite the cooincidence, I just watched "The Last Crusade" the other night, what are the odds?And Monkey, if I liked the company, and the employees, and was making enough to live happily on, then nope I wouldn't.Sometimes it's about others, and not just you. In fact to extend the Vinny comparison, last year I took a temperary pay cut so that the company could afford to keep the employees we needed to keep the shifts going. That's who I am.
Vinny, let's say your walking to work, and as you're crossing the street, you get side-swiped by a Sears truck. You're not hurt too badly, and the driver says, "hey, if you don't report this, to make it up to you, come by the store tonight and you can take whatever you want, but you gotta be in an out in 30 minutes."Are you going to walk in and grab the first thing you see in housewares, or are you gonna walk around the store awhile, familiarize yourself with the merchandise, and see if it's possible to get a plasma TV, surround sound system, DVD-DVR, new computer, and riding mower out the door in a half an hour?That's all Shaun's doing man. He got hit by the Franchise truck so he's taking his time and making sure he gets what's coming to him in compensation.
SHO - my bad again! I usually put it in the text so it's visible as I always forget the title is linkable. Sorry.
Well Vin, I have to say you're a better man than I am. I would take a slightly lower salary to stay where I am, because I like it here, but if a significantly larger salary were offered, with legitimate job security, I'm gone.
If a guy can't live on over $6 mil for a year's work then he needs a budget manager, and a clue.At those high stakes it's ego, don't kid yourself, his family, his kids' families and his Grandkids' families could live on the money he's gonna pull in before his career's over.
Last season was frustrating for us all, we had all the talent in the world, but couldn't perform up to our potential. Then Alexander makes his now infamous comments about being stabbed in the back.Then we hear Trent Dilfer call in on KGR, and emphasize how little real football attitude there is on that roster and that many people are more concerned with stats than team play.Then Okeafor chooses to go to an inferior, but rapidly climbing franchise since that franchise has the attitude he supports about playing for the love of the game, and we don't.Then we rightfully sign Jones and Hass, and franchise Alexander, which was a minor miracle to get all three locked in to some extent in it's own right.What's my point? I'm not sure, but I feel like given the recent disapointments, the prevailing fear that this team isn't playing the game the right way, combined with a heat of the moment comment have lead to Alexander becoming a scapegoat for the teams shortcomings.There is nobody, I repeat nobody, at Alexanders talent level that would volunteer their time to practice and risk injury with out getting paid for it. He is holding out purely from a business standpoint, not out of selfishness.As he has said, he knew he'd get franchised with the assumption that they'd work out the contract after July 15, when negotiating can resume. He is not sweating it, so why are we?Now, whether or not he can come in and be effective and in shape on short notice is an entirely separate arguement, and the difference between the two situations must be clearly distinguished.
Do you think Travis Henry fits our system moreActually, yes I do. Travis Henry is more of a WCO back since he's as dangerous running as he is in the flat on a screen, and he's used to picking up blitzing LBs.We drafted Shaun because the OLD FO liked to pick "the best player available" and then try to pidgeon hole him into the system.Holmgren admitted that Shaun's the type of back who wants the ball 25-35 times a game, and that's just not the WCO.Dan Marino was a heck of a QB, but he would be wrong for our style of offense too.
Vinny, I understand what it means to be a team player, but would you "take one for the team" financially if you WEREN'T happy with where you were? No, of course not. How do you know that Alexander is? And furthermore, why should he be? The FO and Holmgren have never really done anything to make him feel happy here. Alexander, (whether you think it's fair or not), said that he'd felt stabbed in the back by Holmgren. I don't really care whether or not it's true, the truth is irrelevant. What is importanat is how Alexander FEELS about it. Why should you expect him to take less money to stay in a place where the FO is not willing to commit long term to him, where there are constant complaints about his running style, work ethic, lack of fitting in to the W.C.O. etc... What possible reason would Alexander have for taking less money to stay at a place where the head coach wouldn't give him one more carry in order to set a personal goal? Vinny, you are asking Alexander to not only be a team player, but a saint as well. If I had been treated the way that Alex has, after carrying this team for the last three years, there's simply no way, I would take less money or put myself into a situation where I have less room to manuevre into a better contract just for a team that I felt had stabbed me in the back.
In fact to extend the Vinny comparison, last year I took a temperary pay cut so that the company could afford to keep the employees we needed to keep the shifts going. That's who I am. That's great Vinny, and I know you're a heck of a nice guy for doing it, when most people wouldn't.But you can't judge Shaun's approach and desire to improve his earning potential based on our real-world economics.Answer me this. If when you got BACK to your job, as I know you are, and you found out that the very employees whose job you helped save by voluntarily leaving the company, were now making FIVE TIMES MORE than you were, and getting all kinds of attention from the boss and the community, would you be pissed?If you answer NO, you're lying or you're not human.That's what the real deal is with Shaun. It's not that $6M for one season isn't enough for anyone to live on, but when others in his field are making FIVE TIMES that amount, and getting the love and admiration of their team and fan-base, then it's only natural for him to expect that same level of compensation.
Why shouldn't we give him the ball 25-30 time a game,look at our wins and losses when we do.But thats how it is for most good backs,nothing helps a defences more then a ball control offence.
It's not about what your family can live on, and I wish people would quit bringing things like that up. I am a Timberwolves fan too, and I can say with full confidence that people who say things like that (spree) are idiots. Of course the money they make is enough to feed their family. Of course their family will be set for life. But I think that anyone that says would turn down a chance at more money for what they do is fooling themselves. Let's face it, Shaun believes (and rightly so) that he is one of the top 3 or 4 backs in the NFL. He is an ELITE player. It's his right, and in fact it's expected of him, to look around and find out what kind of contracts he will be offered. That has nothing to do with being a "team player" or having an "ego". It's business. It's the way things are done. Do we think less of Dilfer for asking for a trade? He left for the "selfish" reason of wanting to start. It lessened our team. But it's a business, and it's the way things are done.
We have always had good successwhen we set up screens for Alexander,when he swings out of the back field is he he has trouble.We didn't set up to many last year,Alexander thrives in the open field.It's not that Alexanders hands are bad it just we always tak him out on third downs and he doesn't get the reps.
Ya won't change my mind, he's a selfish player who cares about nothing and no one but himself, and in my opinion he's what's wrong with Pro Sports in general!Sports are supposed to be about the team! Not the individual!Losing Trent will not cost us games, losing Alexander's best play by him sitting out and getting out of shape and getting hurt in the regular season will.And by the way, I'm sorry, but in my book an elite' Back is a complete Back, someone that excells in all aspects of his game. Something Alexander absolutely does not.
Trent's white.Not saying anyone here's a racist, cuz I don't believe it, but the truth is that the general public is quicker to throw the Punk and Thug handles at black players than white.(there, now THAT little opinion's gotta be good for about 30 more posts!!)
Losing Trent will not cost us games, losing Alexander's best play by him sitting out and getting out of shape and getting hurt in the regular season will.Hold on their Cowboy, that's one non-truth and one contradiction!First, having Trent come off the bench for us when Matt went down directly contributed to at least TWO WINS last season.And you can't say that Alexander is an incomplete back who's wrong for the WCO, and how Mo Mo can come in and do just as well, and THEN say that without Alexander we'll lose games.And if you're gonna get all polyanna on the team concept, rent Miracle, Bad News Bears and Hoosiers, because in today's sports marketplace, no individual is going to make MAJOR sacrafices for the team.(ok, insert Patriot rant here!)
Why shouldn't we give him the ball 25-30 time a game...Because that's not the West Coast Offense. The team, the coach, the coaching staff have all been built for the WCO, which is a series of quick reads, pass first, run later scheme that asks more of the RB than to just hammer it up the middle 30 times a game.
Boy...did I pick the wrong day to make two other light-hearted off topic type posts to this BLOG!
Ok damn it! Now I have to post one more comment on Alexander.Alba, it was my intention to say that we'll be able to replace Trent.And on the HB contradiction, An Alexander who's sat out the entire off season, and potentially the pre-season, is not a Morris who's been playing with the team and practicing and becoming a part of the flow. In fact, this could very well backfire on Shaun depending on how Mo plays in camp and the Pre-season.Now that would be a hoot!
WOW!!!!!!56 comments in one afternoon! And it's only 3:00. And the second hsift hasn't even checked in yet!
In fact, this could very well backfire on Shaun depending on how Mo plays in camp and the Pre-season.Indeed. I'm really defending the situation more than the player, because really none of us knows what Shaun's true character is.That being said, he's got until July 15th to sit back and sort out his options, but he better have a clear idea what he wants to do shortly thereafter, because I don't think the new FO is going to put up with any holdout B.S. beyond what the rules force/allow.If he wants to stay in Seattle then sign the tender at that point and get one with bid-ness. If Seattle wants him for the long haul, then they also should be ready shortly after the 15th with a reasonable offer.There's a LOT of time to negotiate in principle between now and then, so both sides ought to be dilligent about this, and both will be to blame if this becomes a source of distraction into next season.You're absolutely right, an out of shape RB that comes in and gets hurt doesn't help the Seahawks or Sir Shaun.
56 comments in one afternoon! And it's only 3:00. And the second hsift hasn't even checked in yet! Like I said, it's better when we disagree!
An elite anything is someone who is at the top of their chosen profession. The fact that Dan Marino couldn't scramble for half of his career doesn't make him any less of an Elite Quarterback. Same with Shaun. Especially since last I checked, his title was runningback, not receiving back.
Or Blocking back for that matter.
Excellent point, P. I should say, that in spite of my negativity about Shaun recently, there is nothing I want more than for him to come back and have a great year like the last. That's why I hate the holdout stuff so much, in fact. It puts the odds against him to have a repeat performance.C'mon, July 16. We need a contract for this guy.
62 comments...wowway to go guysnice to know everyone comes when I leave :Penjoy it while it lasts...ill be coming around alot more Sunday night
nice to know everyone comes when I leave Payroll - reminds me of one of my favorite Rodney Dangerfield zingers:Rodney to wife: how come you never tell me when you have an orgasm?Wife to Rodney: Cuz I'm never near a phone!
Gents - I do not believe the two side can "officially" negotiate until after July 15th. The period between 3/15 and 7/15 is a cool-off period. That'a why the two sides use the media more during this period than normally!